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Rulebook variations - Sir Palamon


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#1 HorusEye

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:18 AM

Hi, I had read an old thread dating back to 2012 where the Castle Daerion encounter was heavily critisized for being imbalanced. Aside from an exploit with the militiamen placement, the central non-player character Sir Palamon was too weak, and only had a brown defense die.

 

Now, the latest online errata for the game is "Errata and FAQ Version 1.3"
(Updated 11/15/2013) changed this, so that Sir Palamon has a grey defense die.

 

Some mentioned that this (and other errata changes) were now included in the printed rulebooks in the base game box.

 

However, I have a recently purchased base game box set (a few months old), and in the printed Campaign Guide included in the box, Sir Palamon now has TWO grey defense die. I couldn't find anything online pointing this out, so - should the errata not be updated for player with an older box? Anyone else got this super Sir Palamon?

 

Since the printed manuals don't have version numbers, it's a little hard to tell for sure what rules are the most recent.



#2 any2cards

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

Interesting.  I had not heard of this.  Perhaps his upgrade in defense will be reflected in a future FAQ.  I will say that they won't release an FAQ until they have multiple changes to make, and usually not even then until a recent expansion has had a chance to be played and FAQs made for it.



#3 Zaltyre

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:30 AM

Interesting.  I had not heard of this.  Perhaps his upgrade in defense will be reflected in a future FAQ.  I will say that they won't release an FAQ until they have multiple changes to make, and usually not even then until a recent expansion has had a chance to be played and FAQs made for it.

That's true, except they updated the FAQ on 5/22 of this year from Nerekhall feedback. I've got to check my quest quide, but I also have a more recent copy of Descent, and I think Palamon may have 2 gray dice. 



#4 Carbini

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:26 PM

Yea that would be interesting to give him 2 grey defense dice. Ever since Shadows of Nerkhal this quest has changed because... changelings. They can push the mission an extra 2-3 turns with hideous laughter.



#5 Zaltyre

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:47 PM

Yea that would be interesting to give him 2 grey defense dice. Ever since Shadows of Nerkhal this quest has changed because... changelings. They can push the mission an extra 2-3 turns with hideous laughter.

Are changelings a valid open group for that quest based on trait? Because if so, I don't think I would ever not use them.


Edited by Zaltyre, 22 July 2014 - 12:48 PM.


#6 Carbini

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:23 PM

Exactly Zaltyre. :) And yea, Changelings are Civilized/Cursed, that mission has Civilized monsters open, which defaults to flesh moulders if you own only the base game.

Edit: Others have mentioned using golems as just a sheer block strategy, but I don't own golems since I have no first edition stuff. I think they are in the next hero/monster pack though.


Edited by Carbini, 22 July 2014 - 02:26 PM.


#7 sigmazero13

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:21 PM

I've used the Golems in the block strategy before, and it can work, but it depends on what weapons and power the heroes have.  Even without pierce, etc, there are some things that can tear the Golems apart rather quickly.



#8 Zaltyre

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:02 PM

I opened up my quest guide, and yes, it's true. Sir Palamon's stats are:

Health- 25

Speed- 4

Defense- 2x gray

Might- 3

Knowledge- 2

Awareness- 2

Willpower- 4

 

I wonder if I should have played with those stats or the errata'd one gray? I (the OL) ended up losing Castle Daerion.



#9 HorusEye

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:20 AM

 

I wonder if I should have played with those stats or the errata'd one gray? I (the OL) ended up losing Castle Daerion.

I assumed the errata is older than the quest guide we have, since the errata states that he has 1 grey dice instead of 1 brown. There would not have been a mention of a brown die if the change was made later.

 

I find it a bit strange that despite all these attempts to balance the quest, Sir Palamon does not scale with number of players. In a 2-hero game, Sir Palamon will last far longer against the OL's weaker monsters, and have plenty of time to summon militiamen (who don't scale either).



#10 Zaltyre

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:11 AM

 

 

I wonder if I should have played with those stats or the errata'd one gray? I (the OL) ended up losing Castle Daerion.

I assumed the errata is older than the quest guide we have, since the errata states that he has 1 grey dice instead of 1 brown. There would not have been a mention of a brown die if the change was made later.

 

I find it a bit strange that despite all these attempts to balance the quest, Sir Palamon does not scale with number of players. In a 2-hero game, Sir Palamon will last far longer against the OL's weaker monsters, and have plenty of time to summon militiamen (who don't scale either).

 

True, but encounter 1 doesn't scale with heroes either so it balances out.  2 heroes are much more likely to lose encounter 1, resulting in no militiamen at the start. I've seen heroes save all but 1 villager in a 4 hero game.

 

I guess my biggest confusion is this- if the intent was to re-errata Sir Palamon's defense, why not put it in the errata? It almost makes me wonder if the new quest guide has a typo.


Edited by Zaltyre, 23 July 2014 - 06:11 AM.


#11 any2cards

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:25 AM

I guess my biggest confusion is this- if the intent was to re-errata Sir Palamon's defense, why not put it in the errata? It almost makes me wonder if the new quest guide has a typo.

 

 

I can't agree with this sentiment more ... nothing pisses me off more than having a "new release" or a "revised edition" of a game be released that has updated docs/rules/stats etc. without first putting the same information into a FAQ and/or errata document !!!

 

Basically, those of us who are early adopters/investors of the game, who basically make it possible for FFG to be able to re-release the game later on, pay the price.  To be clear, I would have no issue with this as long as they also updated the FAQ with the same information, and release both at the same time.

 

After all, if a decision has been made that a quest/encounter needs to be tweaked to make it more balanced and/or make it play the way the designer intended, then the least FFG can do is let all of us know this at the same time.  It's not like I am going to go out and re-buy the game just to get this information.

 

I actually spent about 30 minutes typing in this post, as I was stewing more and more as I thought about this issue.  The very fact that this has occurred with one encounter/quest makes me wonder what else has changed in the new release of the game?

 

How many more modifications have been made that are not also reflected within the FAQ?



#12 HorusEye

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:51 AM

 

 

How many more modifications have been made that are not also reflected within the FAQ?

 

Exactly - it was the same confusion that brought me here to post the thread. Which version is valid, the most balanced, and what are players supposed to do if more than one person in the group has a game box, and the manuals don't match up. Erratas have version numbers, but rule books don't. So you're never sure.

 

Are the two grey dice a typo, you ask. Now you have me wondering this, too. Super Sir Palamon sure is hard to hit with tier 1 monsters. 



#13 any2cards

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:56 AM

 

 

How many more modifications have been made that are not also reflected within the FAQ?

 

Exactly - it was the same confusion that brought me here to post the thread. Which version is valid, the most balanced, and what are players supposed to do if more than one person in the group has a game box, and the manuals don't match up. Erratas have version numbers, but rule books don't. So you're never sure.

 

Are the two grey dice a typo, you ask. Now you have me wondering this, too. Super Sir Palamon sure is hard to hit with tier 1 monsters. 

 

 

It may be worth sending this question to FFG and seeing what their "official" response is.



#14 Zaltyre

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 07:13 AM

I agree that this should be submitted as a question, it would be good to know for certain what Sir Palamon's defense pool is supposed to be. As far as I had seen, all of the differences in the quest guide/ cards in this newer version of Descent were changes that reflected those in the FAQ (Splig is on the other side of the door in "The Man Who Would Be King," "Reinforce," "Bloodlust," and "Unholy Ritual" are nerfed, etc.) I had assumed that Palamon was also updated according to the FAQ (as he now has a speed of 4,) but didn't notice the "extra" gray die.



#15 any2cards

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 07:26 AM

Let's hope my being miffed (I used "pissed" before and my bloody English friends wanted to know why the post led me to being drunk  :P) was just wasted time.  I hope the extra gray die is just a mistake.



#16 HorusEye

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:25 AM

How do you go about submitting a question such as this to FFG? I'm new here, and fairly new to Descent as well.



#17 any2cards

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:28 AM

How do you go about submitting a question such as this to FFG? I'm new here, and fairly new to Descent as well.

 

Fill out the form with your question information via the link below:

 

http://www.fantasyfl...om/edge_faq.asp



#18 Zaltyre

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:03 AM

 

How do you go about submitting a question such as this to FFG? I'm new here, and fairly new to Descent as well.

 

Fill out the form with your question information via the link below:

 

http://www.fantasyfl...om/edge_faq.asp

 

And for future reference, in small text at the very bottom of this page(between "User Support" and "Help") you'll find a link for "Rules Questions." It's the same link.


Edited by Zaltyre, 23 July 2014 - 09:03 AM.


#19 Megamanred

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:10 AM

In My Rule Book Sir Palamon has a Defense of Grey Brown and the Errata States that the Brown should be replaced with a Grey Does it not? So it would end up that he has Grey Grey.


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#20 Zaltyre

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:33 AM

In My Rule Book Sir Palamon has a Defense of Grey Brown and the Errata States that the Brown should be replaced with a Grey Does it not? So it would end up that he has Grey Grey.

Does he have gray brown in the original? I don't have the old quest guide. People were making it sound like it was just brown. That would actually clear up all of the confusion. In that case, I would feel bad for getting any2cards worked up over nothing.


Edited by Zaltyre, 23 July 2014 - 10:39 AM.





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