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Yes TURRETS Are Part Of This Game.


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#21 Slugrage

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:51 AM

I'm always torn between putting an R5 on the Y, to let it be a tank, or the R2, to actually let it do useful K-turns...

Oh yeah, and then blast you to oblivion with it's turret, if you're kind enough to stay at range 1 or 2, please.


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Core: 3 sets

Rebel: 1 X, 3 Y, 3 A, 2 B, 2 H, 2 YT-1300, 2 E, 4 Z, 1 CR-90, 1 GR-75, 2 Reb Aces

Imperial: 2 T, 3 T/Ad, 4 T/Int, 2 T/Bmb, 2 T/Df, 2T/Ph, 2 Shuttle, 2 Firespray, 2 Imp Aces

Order: 1 YT-2400, 1 VT-49


#22 Captain Lackwit

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:00 AM

Turrets are effective but you guys might notice that the ones that have 360 degree arcs also just so happen to move like ass.

So there's your balance.


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STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread


#23 Aminar

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:02 AM

Turrets are effective but you guys might notice that the ones that have 360 degree arcs also just so happen to move like ass.
So there's your balance.

Pretty sure the Falcon has the best dial in the game... and that Turret ships don't need much more than a single hard turn to be as manueverable as any ship in the game. The Hawks Dial may suck, but with a better dial it might be broken.

#24 VanorDM

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:05 AM

Here's what I'd like to see for Y-Wings.

Title Card Y-Wing BTL-S3.

You may ignore the focus cost on a blaster turret upgrade.


It would effectively add a gunner to the Y-Wing, so the gunner could 'focus' on firing the blaster turret leaving the pilot free to fly.

A new turret without the focus cost could be an issue because then you could use it on other ships. Although I suppose a blaster turret that is Y-Wing only could accomplish the same thing.

Edited by VanorDM, 22 July 2014 - 09:06 AM.

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#25 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:11 AM

Y-wings are the best rebel ship! They take a beating and what else can make your opponent fly themselves off the board better then a Y-wing? Fun and funny all in one package.

 

Yup!

:)

 

In EPIC get a six-pack of Y's going with a six-pack-round-back of Z's.

 

After the Ion and Alpha fun, you get that 24 dice of blaster fire.

 

HI!

:lol:


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#26 AverageBoss

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:12 AM

I see the complaint about turrets often, followed by a Dogfighting reference as if a real game based on WWI & WWII is not true to history or whatever if there are spinning guns.

:rolleyes:

 

This is wrong first of all and it does not give any merit to the argument against turrets being in a "dogfight game".

 

The fact is that Machine guns and Cannons have been set into turrets since the modern wars.

:)

 

duxford7.jpg

 

 

pb4y1erco70.jpg

 

Respect the wisdom of our Fathers!

;)

 

Those turrets have blind spots :) .

 

I don't dislike turrets being in the game, I dislike how the Falcon / Decimator / Outrider omni turrets were handled (well ignore the outrider as to go above two dice, it loses a range band). The Flacon as it is further encouraged Tie Swarms (as if they needed any more encouragement) and pretty much single handily invalidates a good number of builds from being competitive.

 

Also, if we have a ship that ignores ships that survive based only on their maneuverability, should we not also have a ship that ignores ships that survive purely on their tankiness (such as ignoring shields)? I don't like either.


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#27 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:19 AM

Yeah but the TIE Phantom is a-okay.

:ph34r:


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#28 Hobojebus

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:23 AM

Yeah but the TIE Phantom is a-okay.

:ph34r:

Which would be valid if the meta had suddenly become phantom heavy, it didn't however it became falcon heavy. 


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#29 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:25 AM

 

Yeah but the TIE Phantom is a-okay.

:ph34r:

Which would be valid if the meta had suddenly become phantom heavy, it didn't however it became falcon heavy. 

 

 

Xactly!

:lol:


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#30 RedLeader

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:28 AM


 

I don't dislike turrets being in the game, I dislike how the Falcon / Decimator / Outrider omni turrets were handled (well ignore the outrider as to go above two dice, it loses a range band). The Flacon as it is further encouraged Tie Swarms (as if they needed any more encouragement) and pretty much single handily invalidates a good number of builds from being competitive.

 

 

 

 

The Outrider can mount an HLC or Ion cannon that has range 3.   This would make it the only 360 degree Ion cannon with range 3 in the game, and the only attack 4 ship with 360 degree firing arc.  I for one am really looking forward to this ship!

 

As for the OP. Turrets bring tons of balance to this game.  I'm glad they are here and I'm glad the Imp's are getting one.


4 Xwings,  2 Ywings,  2 Awings,  2 Bwings, 2YT-1300, 1 HWK

2 Z-95, 1 Ewing, 1 Transport, 1 CR-90

7 Tie, 3 Interceptors, 2 Tie Bombers, 1 Tie Adv, 2 Shuttles, 1 Firespray

2 Phantoms, 1 Defender


#31 Lilikin

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:29 AM

I think the Knife to a Gun fight argument (AKA interceptor & A Wing) is wrong surely every ship in the game SHOULD have something in some way against any other combination of ship.

 

Otherwise why have that ship?

 

Otherwise Meta is everything


Edited by Lilikin, 22 July 2014 - 09:35 AM.

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Wait lassie what's that noise? A few people telling FFG on a forum how to make their own games, well lassie that told them

I have three more ships than you so my opinion is twice as valid!!

#32 AverageBoss

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:37 AM

 


 

I don't dislike turrets being in the game, I dislike how the Falcon / Decimator / Outrider omni turrets were handled (well ignore the outrider as to go above two dice, it loses a range band). The Flacon as it is further encouraged Tie Swarms (as if they needed any more encouragement) and pretty much single handily invalidates a good number of builds from being competitive.

 

 

 

 

The Outrider can mount an HLC or Ion cannon that has range 3.   This would make it the only 360 degree Ion cannon with range 3 in the game, and the only attack 4 ship with 360 degree firing arc.  I for one am really looking forward to this ship!

 

As for the OP. Turrets bring tons of balance to this game.  I'm glad they are here and I'm glad the Imp's are getting one.

 

Remember, the Outrider title disables your primary weapon. The HLC makes it so that it cannot ever damage ships a range band 1. Yes the Outrider Ion Cannon-Turret would be the most potent Ion weapon in the game, but then you are spending 40+ points on a ship that will never contribute more than 1 point of damage a turn.


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#33 Aminar

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:38 AM

I think the Knife to a Gun fight argument (AKA interceptor & A Wing) is wrong surely every ship in the game SHOULD have something in some way against any other combination of ship.
 
Otherwise why have that ship?
 
Otherwise Meta is everything

Here's the thing. As soon as the Falcon can't reliably one shot the ship.(Hull upgrade on Interceptors) it no longer hard counters them. Soontir Fel with Hull upgrade, two focuses, and an evade can pretty easily make a Falcon take 3-4 hits to kill him. That murders the Falcon lists minimal firepower. Marksmanship Gunner Falcons counter him pretty hard, but at a minimum of 50 points that's got its own set of issues.

#34 Rapture

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:40 AM

I fly Han Solo occasionally. I take him with nothing other than Veteran Instincts now that Whisper is around. He is incredibly effective. I just fly over after the initial joust and then do bizarre, unpredictable moves and skirt the combat so that I am very rarely in the arc of more than one enemy ship.

 

If the turrets were overpowered, the solution would not be to make the more expensive (then they will just be impossible to use). The solution is to make them less effective. Give an extra green die if outside of the turret ship's arc or something simple like that. However, I am not sure that a solution is necessary regardless of whether flying a flanker squadron against two YT-1300s is an auto loss.

 

Chewie's Falcon

The MF!

60 points

60 points
Chewbacca
5
 
Unique
When you are dealt a faceup damage card, immediately flip it facedown (without resolving its ability).
Chewbacca/YT-1300 (42)
Push the Limit (3)
– Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar. Then receive 1 stress token.
Cluster Missiles (4)
– Attack [Target Lock]: Spend your Target Lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice. Attack value: 3. Range: 1-2.
C3-PO (3)
– Once per round, before you roll 1 or more defense dice, you may guess aloud a number of evade.png results. If you roll that many evade.png results (before modifying the dice), add 1 evade.png result.
Lando Calrissian (3)
– Action: Roll 2 defense dice. For each focus.png result, assign 1 focus token to your ship. For each evade.png result , assign 1 evade token to your ship.
Millennium Falcon (1)
– Your action bar gains the evade.png action icon.
Shield Upgrade (4)
– Increase your shield value by 1.
 
:wub:
 

 

What is the point of a shield upgrade on Chewbacca? Wouldn't a hull upgrade do literally the same thing for 1 point less?


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#35 VanorDM

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:41 AM

surely every ship in the game SHOULD have something in some way against any other combination of ship.


Doesn't work that way, in fact it never works that way. You can't balance every ship so it's a suitable match to every other ship. Unless you're willing to make every ship effectively the same.

Anytime you give a ship some sort of nitch, such as highly maneuverable but fragile you make it weak against a AoE type of attack. Even though 360 fire isn't a AoE per say, it has a similar effect.

But you're right, the Meta is everything.
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#36 Lilikin

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:55 AM

It isn't everything as a lot of the champions (I had read somewhere) had broken the meta effectively and use combinations of ships/upgrades outside of it changes the way the rest of us play the game.

 

There is a difference between Mental meta (that's the way everyone does it)

 

and Hard Meta (The rules just won't do that)

 

There is nothing wrong with Rock paper Scissors in a game and I don't want a pair of Diamond Scissors (I win card) the issue I find is when a ship becomes effectively Jelly because then what's the point of that ship?

 

I think that then is a big issue

 

it's more important in a minis game as a LCG for example you have so many cards one is no great loss, in this game on or two bad units is a big % of the cards


Edited by Lilikin, 22 July 2014 - 09:56 AM.

Wait lassie what's that noise? A few people telling FFG on a forum how to make their own games, well lassie that told them

I have three more ships than you so my opinion is twice as valid!!

#37 mazz0

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:59 AM

So, turrets on the whole are OK, but the named YT1300 pilots are a little undercosted.  Does that about sum it up?



#38 mazz0

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:01 AM


the issue I find is when a ship becomes effectively Jelly [in the meta] because then what's the point of that ship?

 

It may be useless in competitions, but you can still play with it for fun can't you?


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#39 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:04 AM

I fly Han Solo occasionally. I take him with nothing other than Veteran Instincts now that Whisper is around. He is incredibly effective. I just fly over after the initial joust and then do bizarre, unpredictable moves and skirt the combat so that I am very rarely in the arc of more than one enemy ship.

 

If the turrets were overpowered, the solution would not be to make the more expensive (then they will just be impossible to use). The solution is to make them less effective. Give an extra green die if outside of the turret ship's arc or something simple like that. However, I am not sure that a solution is necessary regardless of whether flying a flanker squadron against two YT-1300s is an auto loss.

 

Chewie's Falcon

The MF!

60 points

60 points
Chewbacca
5
 
Unique
When you are dealt a faceup damage card, immediately flip it facedown (without resolving its ability).
Chewbacca/YT-1300 (42)
Push the Limit (3)
– Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar. Then receive 1 stress token.
Cluster Missiles (4)
– Attack [Target Lock]: Spend your Target Lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice. Attack value: 3. Range: 1-2.
C3-PO (3)
– Once per round, before you roll 1 or more defense dice, you may guess aloud a number of evade.png results. If you roll that many evade.png results (before modifying the dice), add 1 evade.png result.
Lando Calrissian (3)
– Action: Roll 2 defense dice. For each focus.png result, assign 1 focus token to your ship. For each evade.png result , assign 1 evade token to your ship.
Millennium Falcon (1)
– Your action bar gains the evade.png action icon.
Shield Upgrade (4)
– Increase your shield value by 1.
 
:wub:
 

 

What is the point of a shield upgrade on Chewbacca? Wouldn't a hull upgrade do literally the same thing for 1 point less?

 

DUR!

:blink:

... yeah man thanks!

 

I made these MF at the same time and missed that for Chewie.

:)


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#40 VanorDM

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:06 AM

the issue I find is when a ship becomes effectively Jelly because then what's the point of that ship?


I've played a lot of games with 4 Interceptor lists, and they aren't jelly... They do quite well, assuming the other guy isn't playing a HSF list.

If a ship has a counter, that doesn't mean the ship is worthless, just that it's going to struggle against it's counter.
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