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Yes TURRETS Are Part Of This Game.


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#1 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:34 AM

I see the complaint about turrets often, followed by a Dogfighting reference as if a real game based on WWI & WWII is not true to history or whatever if there are spinning guns.

:rolleyes:

 

This is wrong first of all and it does not give any merit to the argument against turrets being in a "dogfight game".

 

The fact is that Machine guns and Cannons have been set into turrets since the modern wars.

:)

 

duxford7.jpg

 

 

pb4y1erco70.jpg

 

Respect the wisdom of our Fathers!

;)


Edited by Joe Boss Red Seven, 22 July 2014 - 07:40 AM.

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"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#2 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:39 AM

What?!? This has to be a mistake?
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#3 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:41 AM

I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.

 

Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.

 

This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.

 

The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.


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#4 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:42 AM

What?!? This has to be a mistake?

 

Me sowwies.

:o :huh: :P


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#5 nikk whyte

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:55 AM

The only true turreted ship at the moment is the falcon. Everything else has to spend points to become turreted. And since the falcon is super expensive from go, it's pretty balanced.

People will stop complaining once they can run decimator/squints.
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Current fleet:
Rebel: x-wing, y-wing, HWK-290, yt-1300, e-wing, z-95, a-wing, b-wing

Imperial: 2 tie fighters, 2 interceptors, tie phantom, tie advanced, firespray, defender, bomber


#6 oddeye

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:58 AM

I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.

 

Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.

 

This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.

 

The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.

table top games typically have some "ro sham bo" aspect to the mechanics. It's what makes the game fun! =)

 

sure my elite super squad of acadamy pilots is great against bobs list, but while playing against joe i lost because he as assault missiles. Bob on the other hand won vs joe because joe's 3 glass cannons got shot down from bobs turret. ect. ect.


Edited by oddeye, 22 July 2014 - 07:59 AM.

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#7 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:02 AM

I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.

 

Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.

 

This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.

 

The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.

 

I have sympathy for the TIE Interceptor and Adorable little A-Wing. I do. I own three A's and will have three more when we get our happy hands on REB Aces. I also own six Interceptors and I am going to buy two more IMP Aces after Wave five is out and so forth. I LOVE both of these ships and the fact that they are both got the Aces treatment is glorious IMO.

 

With that stated. My fine Wingers...

I ain't bring'n 'em to a turret fight!

 

The point is simply this:. Some of our fellows here would do well if they stopped complaining and started learning to use other ships when they are facing a turret heavy force.

 

The crying is not going to save you if you bring a knife to a gun fight... just because you really love that knife.

:)

 

Are they fair? Well how good are Y-Wings and HWK's really?

No... Really?

;)

 

Can a MF be as good as it should be for much less than 60 points?

No!

:lol:


Edited by Joe Boss Red Seven, 22 July 2014 - 08:19 AM.

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"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#8 Aminar

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:15 AM

I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.
 
Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
 
This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.
 
The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.

 
I have sympathy for the TIE Interceptor and Adorable little A-Wing. I do. I own three A's and will have three more when we get our happy hands on REB Aces. I also own six Interceptors and I am going to buy two more IMP Aces after Wave five is out and so forth. I LOVE both of these ships and the fact that they are both got the Aces treatment is glorious IMO.
 
With that stated. My fine Wingers...
I ain't bring'n 'em to a turret fight!
 
The point is simply this:. Some of our fellows here would do well stop stop complaining and start learning to use other ships when they are facing a turret heavy force.
 
The crying is not going to save you if you bring a knife to a gun fight... just because you really love that knife.
:)
 
Are they fair? Well how good are Y-Wings and HWK's really?
No... Really?
;)
 
Can a MF be as good as it should be for less that 60 points?
No!
:lol:
A properly used Y-Wing or Hawk is amazing. Just to answer your question.
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#9 Hobojebus

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:17 AM

 

 

I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.
 
Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.
 
This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.
 
The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.

 
I have sympathy for the TIE Interceptor and Adorable little A-Wing. I do. I own three A's and will have three more when we get our happy hands on REB Aces. I also own six Interceptors and I am going to buy two more IMP Aces after Wave five is out and so forth. I LOVE both of these ships and the fact that they are both got the Aces treatment is glorious IMO.
 
With that stated. My fine Wingers...
I ain't bring'n 'em to a turret fight!
 
The point is simply this:. Some of our fellows here would do well stop stop complaining and start learning to use other ships when they are facing a turret heavy force.
 
The crying is not going to save you if you bring a knife to a gun fight... just because you really love that knife.
:)
 
Are they fair? Well how good are Y-Wings and HWK's really?
No... Really?
;)
 
Can a MF be as good as it should be for less that 60 points?
No!
:lol:
A properly used Y-Wing or Hawk is amazing. Just to answer your question.

 

but how often do you assault the death star trench or sneak an ex-imperial sometimes jedi onto a planet in this game?



#10 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:20 AM

 

I don't think anyone's arguing that turrets shouldn't exist - several ships you see in the films explicitely have them and you see them being used on-screen.

 

Nor is it that turrets 'don't belong' in a dogfight. But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.

 

This isn't the same as "turrets aren't fair". It just means that ships with turreted weapons have an advantage which needs to be balanced out by either a cost increase or a disadvantage elsewhere in its capabilities.

 

The problem (for some people) is that there are some ships (principally the TIE interceptor and A-wing) which lives and dies by avoiding arcs of fire in the first place, and they are hit harder than most by the existance of the turret, and always will be; if you price a turret to make it fair against them, it'll be massively overpriced in a match against 'normal' ships like X-wings.

table top games typically have some "ro sham bo" aspect to the mechanics. It's what makes the game fun! =)


 

 

<_<


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#11 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:22 AM

I have six Y-Wings for a reason my Brother Wingers.

;)

 

"Ro-Sham-Bo"!
:wub:


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"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#12 Lagomorphia

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:23 AM

But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.

 

But isn't it the turret ships that need to evade arcs?

 

BTW, only the Falcon and Decimator have "if you can shoot me, I can shoot you." Y-wings and HWKs can't fire at Range 3, giving them a blind spot of sorts you can aim for. The Outrider's either got 2 attack (not that scary on such an expensive ship) nothing but an ion cannon or either a Range 1 or a Range 2-3 area.



#13 Slugrage

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:26 AM

It's that funny situation where I'm continually reading how HWKs are worthless, and then suddenly with a turret mounted weapon they turn into some over-powered piece of Rebel cheating. Or something like that.

That's why I own three Y-Wings and two HWKs.


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Core: 3 sets

Rebel: 1 X, 3 Y, 3 A, 2 B, 2 H, 2 YT-1300, 2 E, 4 Z, 1 CR-90, 1 GR-75, 2 Reb Aces

Imperial: 2 T, 3 T/Ad, 4 T/Int, 2 T/Bmb, 2 T/Df, 2T/Ph, 2 Shuttle, 2 Firespray, 2 Imp Aces

Order: 1 YT-2400, 1 VT-49


#14 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:28 AM

 

But where one side has to worry about evading obstacles and range and arc of fire, and the other only has to worry about evading obstacles and range, the latter has an easier job finding an effective manouvre than the former.

 

But isn't it the turret ships that need to evade arcs?

 

 

Yup and except for a well kitted out and well flown Falcon, it is nigh impossible to get around the Glass-Cannons that hate out Turrets.

 

I call it even myself.

;)


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#15 oddeye

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:29 AM

I have six Y-Wings for a reason my Brother Wingers.

;)

 

"Ro-Sham-Bo"!
:wub:

yep. i have 5 y wings. I'm waiting for the next rebel aces before i get more. planning on running a squadron in epic!


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#16 VanorDM

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:30 AM

Can a MF be as good as it should be for much less than 60 points?


Well a bit less :) But yeah the Falcon does in fact pay for that turret. I remember an anti-turret thread not too long ago, saying that turrets shouldn't have 3 dice.

But the ORS only has 2 dice. You have to pay another 15 points to get the 3rd dice, 4 points of PS, and a few more shield and hull. That's the cost of a named tie, or even a A-Wing with the refit.

A typical Falcon is going to cost over 50 points.
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#17 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:33 AM

It's that funny situation where I'm continually reading how HWKs are worthless, and then suddenly with a turret mounted weapon they turn into some over-powered piece of Rebel cheating. Or something like that.

That's why I own three Y-Wings and two HWKs.

 

You ain't even play'n half fair... you dirty so-n-so you!

:ph34r:

 

That HWK is a MF'N MONSTER!

:lol:

 

... and I dammit-dare you to just try and keep up with my Swagger'n Y's!

^_^


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"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#18 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:34 AM

 

I have six Y-Wings for a reason my Brother Wingers.

;)

 

"Ro-Sham-Bo"!
:wub:

yep. i have 5 y wings. I'm waiting for the next rebel aces before i get more. planning on running a squadron in epic!

 

 

Ditto my brother... ditto.

:)


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"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#19 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:40 AM

 

Can a MF be as good as it should be for much less than 60 points?


Well a bit less :) But yeah the Falcon does in fact pay for that turret. I remember an anti-turret thread not too long ago, saying that turrets shouldn't have 3 dice.

But the ORS only has 2 dice. You have to pay another 15 points to get the 3rd dice, 4 points of PS, and a few more shield and hull. That's the cost of a named tie, or even a A-Wing with the refit.

A typical Falcon is going to cost over 50 points.

 

 

Yeah it is.

:)

 

Mine are looking like this currently.

 

Han's Falcon

The MF!

61 points

61 points
Han Solo
9
 
Unique
When attacking, you may reroll all of your dice. If you choose to do so, you must reroll as many of your dice as possible.
Han Solo/YT-1300 (46)
Expert Handling (2)
– Action: Perform a free barrel roll action. If you do not have the {barrel roll} action icon, receive 1 stress token. You may then remove 1 enemy target lock from your ship.
C3-PO (3)
– Once per round, before you roll 1 or more defense dice, you may guess aloud a number of evade.png results. If you roll that many evade.png results (before modifying the dice), add 1 evade.png result.
Gunner (5)
– After you perform an attack that does not hit, you may immediately perform a primary weapon attack. You cannot perform another attack this round.
Millennium Falcon (1)
– Your action bar gains the evade.png action icon.
Shield Upgrade (4)
– Increase your shield value by 1.

 

Chewie's Falcon

The MF!

60 points

60 points
Chewbacca
5
 
Unique
When you are dealt a faceup damage card, immediately flip it facedown (without resolving its ability).
Chewbacca/YT-1300 (42)
Push the Limit (3)
– Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar. Then receive 1 stress token.
Cluster Missiles (4)
– Attack [Target Lock]: Spend your Target Lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice. Attack value: 3. Range: 1-2.
C3-PO (3)
– Once per round, before you roll 1 or more defense dice, you may guess aloud a number of evade.png results. If you roll that many evade.png results (before modifying the dice), add 1 evade.png result.
Lando Calrissian (3)
– Action: Roll 2 defense dice. For each focus.png result, assign 1 focus token to your ship. For each evade.png result , assign 1 evade token to your ship.
Millennium Falcon (1)
– Your action bar gains the evade.png action icon.
Shield Upgrade (4)
– Increase your shield value by 1.
 
:wub:
 

"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#20 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:48 AM

Y-wings are the best rebel ship! They take a beating and what else can make your opponent fly themselves off the board better then a Y-wing? Fun and funny all in one package.
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