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Enhanced Scopes - Why?


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#1 dmcgee1

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:17 AM

Please, help with this.  I cannot find it elsewhere.

 

Perhaps I am missing a rather obvious point, but I cannot wrap my head around why I would want to pay 1 point for an upgrade which causes me to move first.

 

This truly vexes me.



#2 Bilisknir

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:22 AM

Blocking!


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Bilisknir corrupt ver of Bilskirnir (Old Norse "lightning-crack"). The hall of the god Thor in Norse mythology.

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#3 DR4CO

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:30 AM

And avoiding getting blocked. I don't know how many times I've had turns ruined and ships killed by enemies jumping in front of them.


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#4 dmcgee1

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:43 AM

This seems counter-intuitive.  After all, isn't getting one's cockpit shout up considered to be bad?

To me, if ships are moved in ascending order of Pilot rating, this represents the better pilot reacting to the lesser pilot(s).  Veteran Instincts add to Pilot Ability (yes, granting the pilot higher position in Attack order), but this is not, by your definitions, an advantage.

 

Again, to me, this seems as if it was done incorrectly; it automatically makes ANY pilot the best pilot in the universe with regard to maneuvering (the single BEST attribute with regard to air combat maneuvering).



#5 DR4CO

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:00 AM

To me, if ships are moved in ascending order of Pilot rating, this represents the better pilot reacting to the lesser pilot(s).  Veteran Instincts add to Pilot Ability (yes, granting the pilot higher position in Attack order), but this is not, by your definitions, an advantage.

 

It's an advantage, yes, but there are also advantages to moving first, namely blocking, denying actions, and being all but assured of getting your own action. Scopes lets you pick which one you want at any given time. If you think you're safe you can move normally and react to what your opponent does, but if you think you're about to get blocked you can move first, keep your action and potentially block your opponent.


The Fleet

6 X-wings - 3 Y-wings - 4 A-wings - 2 B-wings - 3 E-wings - 4 Z-95s - 1 HWK-290 - 2 YT-1300s - 1 Transport - 1 CR-90

5 TIE Fighters - 6 TIE Interceptors -  2 TIE Advanceds - 3 TIE Bombers - 2 TIE Defenders - 2 TIE Phantoms - 2 Firespray - 2 Shuttles


#6 dmcgee1

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:09 AM

If this is the case, then it seems to me that the better pilot should always get the choice of maneuvering when it is, apparently, more advantageous to do so.

If this was, truly, the intent, then I am failing to see the justification for spending the point.  Conversely, I do concede that I may be missing the tactical value of this, or may be confused as to why the better pilot is forced to give in to a droid whose only function is to grant years of ACM experience to the rookie who's never flown anything but a shuttle.

 

If it is such a huge tactical advantage, then why are better pilots not allowed to defer movement or seize it at the most opportune moment?  Veteran Instincts would seem to make one a better pilot, but the droid says, "no."



#7 MrHello

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:23 AM

If this is the case, then it seems to me that the better pilot should always get the choice of maneuvering when it is, apparently, more advantageous to do so.

If this was, truly, the intent, then I am failing to see the justification for spending the point.  Conversely, I do concede that I may be missing the tactical value of this, or may be confused as to why the better pilot is forced to give in to a droid whose only function is to grant years of ACM experience to the rookie who's never flown anything but a shuttle.

 

If it is such a huge tactical advantage, then why are better pilots not allowed to defer movement or seize it at the most opportune moment?  Veteran Instincts would seem to make one a better pilot, but the droid says, "no."

 

Fluff-wise, Higher pilot skill pilots have to react to what lower PS pilots are doing incorrectly, hence why high PS pilots lose their action when they overlap.  They're better pilots which is why they were able to avoid the collision at all.  This is why enhanced scopes can be a good thing.

 

Game-wise, there are both advantages, and disadvantages to initiative, or Higher/lower PS.  Ships that move first can block, and will usually always get their action.  Ships that move last can target lock enemy ships when first moving into range, and if they are really good at predicting your maneuvers, they can put themselves in a position so next turn they can K-turn because your ship won't be there next turn, but you cannot because their ships are blocking you.

 

So Use of Enhanced Scopes depends greatly on what you want to do with your squad.  I've built similar squads that use PS swarming to allow me to both block, and shoot first, and they've tended to do really well.

 

 

 

To me, if ships are moved in ascending order of Pilot rating, this represents the better pilot reacting to the lesser pilot(s).  Veteran Instincts add to Pilot Ability (yes, granting the pilot higher position in Attack order), but this is not, by your definitions, an advantage.

 

It's an advantage, yes, but there are also advantages to moving first, namely blocking, denying actions, and being all but assured of getting your own action. Scopes lets you pick which one you want at any given time. If you think you're safe you can move normally and react to what your opponent does, but if you think you're about to get blocked you can move first, keep your action and potentially block your opponent.

 

 

Are you sure that's how that works?  I thought the change to PS0 wasn't optional.



#8 Otacon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:33 AM

If this is the case, then it seems to me that the better pilot should always get the choice of maneuvering when it is, apparently, more advantageous to do so.

If this was, truly, the intent, then I am failing to see the justification for spending the point.  Conversely, I do concede that I may be missing the tactical value of this, or may be confused as to why the better pilot is forced to give in to a droid whose only function is to grant years of ACM experience to the rookie who's never flown anything but a shuttle.

 

If it is such a huge tactical advantage, then why are better pilots not allowed to defer movement or seize it at the most opportune moment?  Veteran Instincts would seem to make one a better pilot, but the droid says, "no."

 

It's a matter of game mechanics, a trade off. There's advantages and disadvantages either way to moving first or last, but shooting first is pretty much always an advantage. That's where the strength of scopes comes in. Normally a high PS ship has the advantage of moving after everyone else, and so knowing for sure who they can shoot and who can shoot them to decide their action. That said, the main benefit of high PS is shooting first/earlier, guaranteeing they can get some damage in before being taken out themselves. 

 

Low pilot skill has the advantage in movement of not being likely to get blocked, while blocking themselves, but against more maneuverable, higher PS ships that have abilities like boost and barrel roll can get caught with no targets, and then have the very obvious disadvantage of going last in shooting, potentially being killed before they even get to fire.

 

With advanced scopes you give a high PS pilot all of the advantages of low PS during activation, and high PS during combat. It's a pretty solid upgrade for 1 point. A note, Draco, Scopes don't let you pick turn by turn, you straight up always treat your PS as 0 during activation. If it let you pick I'd say that's too much for a 1 point upgrade.



#9 KineticOperator

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:52 AM

Enhanced Scopes is not optional.  You always activate at PS 0.


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#10 Char The Comet

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 01:17 PM

Captain Kagi works really well with ES.

#11 ixdta39

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:45 PM

With the push for ordnance, I can see this being very effective for a biggs walks the dogs list where the B-Wings move first and the bombers/ordnance heavy ships get a TL on an enhanced scope target only to be forced to attack Biggs



#12 Mace Windu

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:11 PM

It's sad that one of the few pilots that could really benefit from this upgrade cannot take it, Arvyl Crynyd, Sadly he will have to be content using his action to daredevil once A-Wing Test Pilot upgrade is legal (though scopes and test pilot are coming in the same set so it's a moot point)

 

It really is a shame they didn’t put sensor slots on the A-Wing.


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#13 Keffisch

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:26 AM

It almost works as a poor man's Adv. Sensors on a B-Wing.






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