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More adventures per act ?


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#1 magicrealm

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:06 PM

Is there any reason for the three adventure limit per act or can you play as many adventures as you like , for example five ? Will that break the balance ?


Edited by magicrealm, 21 July 2014 - 12:07 PM.


#2 Zaltyre

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:39 PM

Is there any reason for the three adventure limit per act or can you play as many adventures as you like , for example five ? Will that break the balance ?

The total XP limit per campaign is set for a reason- if hero XP gets much above 8-9, they will be overpowered regardless of what the OL can buy with his XP. 

 

That being said, rumor quests offer a way to play more quests per Act (since they don't count toward the Act limit) but also don't reward XP. They still may award gold or gear which is its own issue, but they offer a way to have "more adventures per act."


Edited by Zaltyre, 21 July 2014 - 12:39 PM.


#3 Whitewing

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:59 PM

Further, the more quests you play, the more gold and gear the heroes get, while the overlord just gets the reward (and only maybe). Once the overlord has enough relics to equip his lieutenants, additional relics are of limited value, and getting more xp isn't that good for the overlord because you're either watering down your overlord deck or you're replacing cards with slightly better ones, whereas the heroes are gaining all new skills and gear.



#4 magicrealm

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 03:27 PM

i do not agree with this.

 

class cards work on different situations. they do not work all at once. some need endurance, some 3 of it. 

you can limit the number of class cards for example to 5.

the overlord is the one who can buy cards from all classes, so he gets more high rank cards.

i looked it up. you get 9 xp for guaranteed, because you play 9 adventures. there is no way for the heroes to get more xp in 1st act. in 2nd act they may get up to 3 xp.  the class cards have a cost of 9 for all cards except the 2 cards with a cost of 3 each. so in the basic game you get all cards and maybe 1 rank 3 card. in a 5 adventure game you get one rank 3 Card for guaranteed and the other maybe. so the difference is just about one rank 3 Card.

 

Equipment Cards are limited in use. In basic game there is not one card other than armor, weapon or ring. you cant wear more than 5 Equipment Cards, bothhanded 4.

relics can be won by both sides, you can get all relics in 3 adventures per act if you choose only those with relics. so this is no matter for 5 adventures. plus the relics replace other Equipment.

 

one of the meaning for using 5 adventures is to let the character use what is offered. if the character can not use what is offered because that would spoil the game, that is a bit foolish, isnt it ?

 

 

 

.


Edited by magicrealm, 21 July 2014 - 04:10 PM.


#5 Carbini

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:38 PM

I've seen this conversation before and even aside from balance, which in my opinion will skew VERY heavily towards the heroes if you play even a single extra quest, there are other reasons a lot of people miss when trying to stuff in extra quests for XP. A base game with no small box expansions is 9 missions, this is a solid block of gaming and there are many groups out there who can't fully pull this off before their group/campaign crumbles. Your group may not be one of those, and thus you want to extend the campaign, but it's hard to argue that a campaign of descent "isn't long enough."

 

Also, and still aside aside from balance there are mental reasons why you don't want to go past 3 missions. Design decisions like this keep the game from going stale from things lie the overlord still not being able to bring out act 2 monsters and the heroes are on the 5th mission of act 1 tearing through dragons and goblins alike because they are beefed up on experience points and gold. You may be forgetting another very simple and fun option: Finish the current campaign and start a brand new one! Experience more hero/character classes. Or even pick the same class and try a new build. Don't try and stretch out your game to get more out of it, there's already a ton of content in one campaign: just make multiple games!

Finally, and still staying away from balance, I want to address the comment you made about it not being good that the character cannot access all his abilities by the end of the game: This is incredibly intentional and is simply good game design. Having to make choices and sacrifices is of of the top qualities of a good game. If I know I will have all my abilities in my class deck, then why not just average up some gold, do a shopping phase and just play the finale? Sure it you could argue that the balance still holds (it doesn't) but at this point there's no way to see my decisions have made an impact on my character... because I have it all...

Choices, options, and sacrifices MAKE a game, and descent  is a good example. If you stuff the campaign with 4 extra quests, then you remove the need to create strategy and choices based on your class, gear, and even the relics each side may have won. You are limited to 3 quests to FORCE the heroes to specialize, knowing they have to choose wisely and adapt based on how the campaign is progressing.

Since I'm on a bit of a typing spree let me give you a clear example of how a GOOD choice can make a gamer feel amazing, using descent: Let's say the overlord player chooses Verminous to be their lieutenant, indicating that the heroes are going to up against hordes of small monsters. If you have a stalker in your party, he's now looking at the poison barbs class card as a great option. Sure enough, the stalker takes the card, and in one quest he pops it to poison 4-5 fire imps or some other small monster pack in one shot, melting them down in a couple turns afterwards, and allowing the party to regain stamina on their attacks since they don't have to dedicate full damage to kill the imps. This move leads to a huge swing in the quest, and the heroes take it cleanly.

The stalker player really feels the impact of his choice to take this card over any others, and looks at the cards he DIDN'T take feeling good about sacrificing those abilities, justified in a very satisfying way since he chose to take poison barbs.


Edited by Carbini, 21 July 2014 - 04:40 PM.

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#6 magicrealm

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:40 AM

thank you for you high qualified comments. i am surprised to find this on a public Forum, usually you get some dirty comments and it makes no sense to try to discuss anything.

 

i am aware of the Balance Problem, thats why i asked this question. i wanted to see, if there is any way to break through the narrow Cage descent 2 is placed in. it doesnt look so.

 

i create much better games out of the existing fabrications by restructure it, modify and adding elements, especially story key features. nowadays not only games miss the myth and magic Fantasy had in earlier times.

These overhauled games still have been the games they were before, just bigger and greater and full of real fantasy.  example : look at the griffon in Talisman. it is a strenght 3 or 4 Monster you have to kill it, wow, what a Fantasy game loool.

how poor must those "Designers" be in Mind and Soul, doing nothing than fighting their career in their companies at the costs of their comrades, being a helpless Zero at the top. like everywhere. and worse :

psychodelic elements hypnotize the users. example : the green search markers with the golden rings around it . oohh what a nice beauty game it is. they are chests. spooking poisoned arrows, but chest counters have no underconsciious effect, so dont make chests, make green round markers with golden circles.

are you wake up to notice that ? surely not. you may laugh about it, but after the laugh you see the truth in it.

 

in descent it looks like i cant keep anything from the game if i want to change anything. so i have to rework it from the beginning, sadly. but it is worth it. if you use the material of descent 2 with it s full potential, then a much bigger and greater game comes out. without green and red round markers with golden rings.


Edited by magicrealm, 22 July 2014 - 06:47 AM.


#7 Zaltyre

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:01 AM

in descent it looks like i cant keep anything from the game if i want to change anything. so i have to rework it from the beginning, sadly. 

I'm sure I don't agree with you. Limitations on a game's structure can be required for balance- you can't expect to be able to change everything and have the game also be fine-tuned. That being said, there are plenty of people who make changes to Descent already, in a lot of really cool ways. Changing a game within the structure it's already established adds to the challenge of customization, and I enjoy that.

 

There's the quest vault which you can find on this site to write your own quests/campaigns. There are templates people have made to customize everything from heroes, classes, and items to monsters and tokens. 

 

You don't like that you can't purchase all of the skills a given class has to offer? Design a class that only has 8 points to spend. Want to add more quests to a campaign but don't like the rumor mechanic? Write a campaign with 6 quests per Act. Have fun. 


Edited by Zaltyre, 22 July 2014 - 07:02 AM.


#8 Carbini

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:15 PM

thank you for you high qualified comments. i am surprised to find this on a public Forum, usually you get some dirty comments and it makes no sense to try to discuss anything.

 

i am aware of the Balance Problem, thats why i asked this question. i wanted to see, if there is any way to break through the narrow Cage descent 2 is placed in. it doesnt look so.

 

i create much better games out of the existing fabrications by restructure it, modify and adding elements, especially story key features. nowadays not only games miss the myth and magic Fantasy had in earlier times.

These overhauled games still have been the games they were before, just bigger and greater and full of real fantasy.  example : look at the griffon in Talisman. it is a strenght 3 or 4 Monster you have to kill it, wow, what a Fantasy game loool.

how poor must those "Designers" be in Mind and Soul, doing nothing than fighting their career in their companies at the costs of their comrades, being a helpless Zero at the top. like everywhere. and worse :

psychodelic elements hypnotize the users. example : the green search markers with the golden rings around it . oohh what a nice beauty game it is. they are chests. spooking poisoned arrows, but chest counters have no underconsciious effect, so dont make chests, make green round markers with golden circles.

are you wake up to notice that ? surely not. you may laugh about it, but after the laugh you see the truth in it.

 

in descent it looks like i cant keep anything from the game if i want to change anything. so i have to rework it from the beginning, sadly. but it is worth it. if you use the material of descent 2 with it s full potential, then a much bigger and greater game comes out. without green and red round markers with golden rings.

I can understand your view here, but Descent 2nd Edition is specifically made to be a strategic and tactical game. Remember that in board games the pieces are abstract for a reason. You may see a fault in gold rings with a green center, but this is done intentionally. "Searching" does not simply mean opening a treasure chest. Perhaps the thing you found was buried under the bones of ancient warrior, or under the smashed remains of a traveler's backpack. The tokens are abstract in this way so you can imagine it to be whatever is convenient. A search token placed in the lava area might not make any sense as a treasure chest, but what about the remains of a dead monster who had eaten a foolhardy adventurer earlier? The token is abstract, but resembles something valuable. A green gem surrounded by gold displays two common symbols of riches, or on a more abstract level, "value."

I think for what you personally value in games, you make want to look into pen and paper games much more than Descent, which is very much a strategic competition between the overlord and the heroes. Dungeons and Dragons, Pathfinder, or if you want to stick to Fantasy Flight, even Dark Hersey might be more in line with what you are seeking to get out of your gaming experience.

All of that being said however, one of the great advantages to any board game is that when spread into individual pieces, they are all abstract icons that hold only as much value as you assign to them. For this reason, instead of simply modifying Descent, you should use the pieces to fully create a game you feel good about and can have fun with.


Edited by Carbini, 22 July 2014 - 12:16 PM.


#9 BentoSan

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:52 PM

If your looking for a bigger lengthier version of descent, then perhaps at look at securing a copy of Descent 1.0 ?


Edited by BentoSan, 22 July 2014 - 12:53 PM.





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