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Experiences with Doom divers


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#1 Katsuyori

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 07:02 AM

Now, as my expansions have finally arrived, I plan to use some new disks in my glorious (?) Orc horde. But when it comes to Doom Divers I have some doubts if this units are worth their cost. As I understand the rules, I have to buy the Divers seperatly and add them to my reserve, then reinforce them during my turn by activating my Catapult. Together they will cost me 9 points of one heroe´s budget (more if I want to use additional Divers). Of course Impact 5 is some serious damage, but as the Diver suffers 1 wound and is removed from the board, the catapult is rendered useless for the rest of the game if there are no Divers left in the reserve. Prerequisit is, of course, that my Diver actually hits a worthy mark, and is not killed before. For now I see them as a quite risky and expensive investment.


So my question is: Has any one experience in using the Divers? When yes, do you think them useful? Any thoughts on how to use them efficiently?

Edited by Katsuyori, 18 July 2014 - 07:04 AM.


#2 Jedhead

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 09:26 AM

I haven't used them yet, but I have had some ideas.  Using them with a few boar boyz and Grom came to mind, of course, for a super-impact heavy army.  I think I would launch the divers in a little swarm, and screen for them with my heavy units out front.  If the enemy doesn't pin the heavies in the front, he invites destruction as they come plowing in.  But if he does pin them, you can free them up with charges from your divers. 

 

I also think that even the catapults could be useful in this model after they launch their buddies, although their slow movement will make it difficult for them to keep up.  After launch, they can be used with reckless abandon as blockers, or even as attackers if the opportunity presents itself for a good pin.  Their ability to take a wound means that they can tie up a much more important enemy unit for two rounds, which should not be underestimated.  If you pin a hero, for example, you won't do any damage, but either that hero is pinned for two rounds, or the enemy has to commit additional troops to come free it.  Either way, it is not a bad trade.

 

Of course this strategy is quite gimmicky, and requires careful movement and maneuvering, but it seems like it would be fun.  I haven't tried it--yet--but this is what I would do in theory. 


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"Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong."  -J.R.R. Tolkien


#3 Tombatal

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:06 PM

Deploying catapult into cover is essential as divers can be protected. Melee can be prevented by a night goblin screen and if the enemy uses up too much resources to overextend and destroy is begging for a boar boyz counter charge.

Successful diver play from my experience is using the threat of Multiple disk impact 5 to scheme the opponent. Taking one disk for one is okay but covering multiple disks with impact 5 - killing half a regiment or killing a multi wound hero in one turn is a possible game winner.
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#4 Katsuyori

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 01:22 AM

Thank you a lot for sharing your ideas and reflections on this subject. I will keep all this in mind when building my next horde.

#5 Riku Riekkinen

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 01:00 PM

They were better than expected (my expectations were similar to yours). 13 points buys you 2 impact threats & catapult. Its much harder to pin those 2 threats than one boar by enemy. Especially, since they fly they reach better places. If opponent happens to be in a fortified territory, they don't deal impact damage, but thus won't also die => so they can be used to pin key opponents in fortified territories. Also with Strenght of Gork (or empower or both) they can even finish wounded enemies (for example after Fists of Mork). Also as noted the catapult can be used to pin opponents after its done its job. Very useful, if enemy has your deploy zone as objective (as orc are attacking catapult will usually cancel autowin, if things go down).


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#6 Katsuyori

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 11:47 AM

That´s a interesting input, Riku. I´ll try to remember this when marching to battle.

#7 Ser Folly

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:37 AM

I desperately want to try the Doom Divers tonight (in about 4 hours).

 

Now I came up with a question.

 

Usually you use one activation from those on your command card to reinforce an activated Disk in your deployment zone.

What about the reinforcing of Doom Divers:

The Catapult says: FOCUS: reinforce a Goblin Doom Diver in medium range (so that is one activation)

 

Do I have to put an activation token on the reinforced Doom Diver as well? And do I have to spend another activation for reinforcing him? I'd say no because the cost has already been covered by the catapult.

 

HELP me PLEASE!!! :huh:


Descent - Star Wars LCG - Netrunner - X-Wing - Arkham Horror - Elder Sign - Battlestar Galactica - Warhammer: Diskwars - Kingsburg - Edge of the Empire - Civilization - Bloodbowl Teammanager - Rune Age - Letters from Whitechapel - Cadwallon - Lord of the Rings LCG ... looks like I love FFG stuff :huh:


#8 Jedhead

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 09:33 AM

You do need to put a token on the divers since it is considered a reinforcement, but it does not take an additional activation from your card.  The cost is covered by the catapult as you suggest above.  It is like using Kairos, whose rules are listed in the core set in the reference section at the end. 


"Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong."  -J.R.R. Tolkien


#9 Ser Folly

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 12:34 AM

Now I played and...

 

LOST!

 

Unfortunately I played a BOLD card when it was obvious that my opponent would go DEVIOUS. Because I went second, Azhag and Grom were destroyed by a ranged heavy High Elves/Empire army in which Karl Franz reactivated 2 siege weapons each round.

 

If I'd taken the correct card, the heroes would have flattened out the siege weapons, some of the archers and perhaps even a hero.

 

But now to the point...

 

My catapult stood behind a cave and in the first activation I wanted to move it into the cave (as it doesn't 'Target' that was anb ideal place. As things went I went second and by then it had suffered a critical hit thus being activated. I prevented further damage from siege weapons by an all out assault of heroes and cavalary.

In the end I rescued the catapult but never was able to reinforce one of the Doom Divers, as nothing got into medium range (because my enemy relied solely on a defensive strategy) and putting them into play without a direct hit would have made them easy tagets for the archers. Another day then...

 

By the way here's my List:

 

Army: Orc Guts (Orcs/Skaven)
Faction: Destruction
N. of Regiments: 3

Initiative Modifier: +1

Azhag the Slaughterer (33)
Goblin Doom Diver (4) x3
Doom Diver Catapult (5)
Night Goblins (4) x2
Wolf Riders (8)
33/33 Points

Proven Champion (2) - Bold
Fists of Mork (3) - Devious

Grom the Paunch (35)
Arrer Boyz (6) x2
Black Orcs (8)
Stone Fangz Shaman (7)
Wolf Riders (8)
35/35 Points

Strength of Gork (3) - Steady
Assault (4) - Bold

Ikit Claw (33)
Gutter Runners (7) x2
Ratling Gun (9) x2
32/33 Points

Vermintide (3) - Slow
Entrap (4) - Devious
 

 


Descent - Star Wars LCG - Netrunner - X-Wing - Arkham Horror - Elder Sign - Battlestar Galactica - Warhammer: Diskwars - Kingsburg - Edge of the Empire - Civilization - Bloodbowl Teammanager - Rune Age - Letters from Whitechapel - Cadwallon - Lord of the Rings LCG ... looks like I love FFG stuff :huh:


#10 Jedhead

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:52 PM

I have tried them out a few times now, and they have had pretty poor to mediocre results.  One problem is certainly terrain that protects from impact, as the enemy army tends to just hang out there a bit depending on scenario objectives.

 

Another problem is launching them all and getting them in striking position.  It takes a few turns to set up, which isn't ideal.  the divers are also hurt even worse than usual by a loss in the command card duel on critical rounds, so that doesn't help them out any.

 

To minimize their limitations, I think they are best played with Azhag.  He definitely punishes the enemy if they try to mass on protective terrain, and removes a major problem in that sense. 

 

Additionally, it seems to help if you screen with the high value units instead of the divers.  That way the divers can free up your heavies if they get pinned, and they are out of range of missile fire and return pins.

 

I will tinker with them a bit more and play a few more games, but those are my initial assessments on limited play.


"Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong."  -J.R.R. Tolkien


#11 Katsuyori

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:07 AM

According to the experiences published here Divers seem to be quite difficult to use. What a pity. But I will definetely try them out myself.

#12 scuy

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 04:14 AM

I have tried them out, they are hard to use, but once on the table it causes much concern for the enemy. I only used 3 divers and 1 catapult, but well worth it when needed to protect fighting units.

 

I like them thus far and will try to keep using them to see how they fair long term.



#13 Rhiga

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 04:13 AM

I have tried them out, they are hard to use, but once on the table it causes much concern for the enemy. I only used 3 divers and 1 catapult, but well worth it when needed to protect fighting units.

 

I like them thus far and will try to keep using them to see how they fair long term.

I wouldn't particularly like fielding 3 divers with one catapult as you only have 5 rounds of play, I would run 2 per catapult - and having the 3rd one come out with approxmately only 2 turns of movement doesn't seem all that efficient. My style of playing them would involve tactically putting woods or other LOS blockers in front of my opponent's deployment zone(s) and having the doom divers follow my Shaman(s) to increase their power, while putting a soft front line of night goblins. I have yet to try it yet though. It seems too dependent on how terrain and deployment zones are established at the beginning and having the catapult + divers be 9+ points when you could run a big boss or wolf riders even seems like too much of a point sink.


Edited by Rhiga, 08 September 2014 - 04:14 AM.

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