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Recharge and Blessings


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#1 master yoda

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:54 PM

So this came up in my last session.

Player invokes a blessing action card. it needs 6 favor and he only has 5. The 5 get placed on the blessing, he also places the 4 recharge tokens for the blessing. Than:

1) At the end of the turn he gains 1 favor and removes 1 recharge token.

Or
 

2) At the end of the turn he gains 1 favor.

On his next turn he places the favor he just recieved at the end of his last turn to resolve the blessing.

At the end of his second turn does he have 2 recharge tokens left or 3 recharge tokens left?

The FAQ says add the recharge tokens immediately after the Action card was successful. When is this? On the roll or after the favor is met.

Thank you.



 



#2 Carcosa

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:22 PM

The blessing is not in play until the conditions to create it a met, IE, you have enough favour. Until that time the card is sort of "in limbo" so it is not actually "on the table" to remove recharge counters, or have any effect.

 

An example is probably the best way:

 

Helmut Thane, priest of Sigmar (Willpower 4) attempts to invoke the Blessing of his God!!

He starts at 4 faith and on his turn plays Righteous Strength to better smite the foes of the Heldenhammer.

 

At this point, Helmut's player declares his action and rolls the appropriate dice (an Invocation check) Helmut has a gold dice in Invocation and is 1 stance into reckless. so he grabs 1Gold,1Red and 3Blue dice, He also grabs one purple dice as indicated on the card for difficulty. After examining his dice pool He has a total of 2 successes, a comet (lucky boy!) but bane and a fatigue.

Helmut's player immediately suffers the one fatigue from the dice roll and one from the bane and places his 4 faith on the card. At this point however the blessing is not actually "resolved" as not enough faith has been generated to power the effect. Noting the effect of the comet, and knowing that his companion Yuri the damned, a crazed Troll slayer has not acted yet, he assigns the comet effect to him and attempts the Curry favour action as well! Again Helmut creates his dice pool, this time based on his Piety. As a pious follower of Sigmar he has 2 gold dice this time. His pool is therefore 2Gold, 1Red and 3Blue. He also grabs 1 purple for the difficulty of the curry favour action, and an ADDITIONAL purple for hurrying his action.

 

NOW, lets explore a few outcomes here.

 

1: Helmut rolls his action and achieves a success! At this point he places the 2 favour gained on the Righteous Strength action card and it now resolves as it now has the required 6 favour. At this point the card "comes into play" and gets its 4 recharge tokens and Helmut and Yuri now get +2 damage to all their melee attacks while the card is recharging.

 

2: Helmut achieves 2 successes and the 2 required faith go onto the card and the affect triggers as above. Helmut ALSO places the 2 additional faith generated into his pool.

 

3: Helmut fails (probably for spending time with non Sigmar fearing companions :P ) and the effect and the card do not enter play at this time.

 

This leads to 3 outcomes during the end step of the round.

 

1: As the card is in play it loses one recharge token and Helmut, now at 0 faith gains 1 faith to move towards equilibrium.

 

2: Same as above, but Helmut goes from 2 faith, to 3 faith as he still is below equilibrium.

 

3: Helmut gains a faith, which is immediately placed on the blessing, but as it requires 6 to trigger it is not "in effect" so provides no benefit to Helmut or Yuri, but also does not loose any recharge tokens either. He ends the turn with no faith.

 

 

There are many variations on this depending on your results from your action, but that is pretty much how it works. Where this differs from a Wizard however is *When* the steps occur. For a Wizard, he has to have the power "upfront" to attempt the spell in question, so he channels first if he needs to, whereas the Priest does the action first and then needs the "power source"

 

 

Hope this helps bro!!  



#3 ElCommi

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:19 PM

*snip*

Just to confirm - the invoke blessing and curry favour take place on different rounds? One issue that has come up in my group is that priests can't do both in the same turn. Unlike a wizard with quick casting.At least, that's how  I have played it.



#4 Carcosa

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:22 PM

Yes you can do both in the same round, just like a wizard. The only difference is, Wizards Draw power then quick cast, Preists cast then curry favour..



#5 ElCommi

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:43 AM

Yes you can do both in the same round, just like a wizard. The only difference is, Wizards Draw power then quick cast, Preists cast then curry favour..

I see.
Where does it mention this? The priest in my group will be pretty happy at this.

 

*edit*
From whatI can see the example given on page 31-32 in the ToB doesn't mention they can do both.
As far as I can see, based on the example given it doesn't seem to allow it.

 

"All 3 favour would be placed on the divine perseverance card... as soon as the 4thg was available it would be claimed."
Then underneath - "on the characters next turn, during the beginning of turn phase a previously invoked blessing would draw any new favour generated"


I flicked through the FAQ and it wasn't mentioned there either


Edited by ElCommi, 03 August 2014 - 05:41 AM.


#6 ElCommi

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:42 AM

 

Yes you can do both in the same round, just like a wizard. The only difference is, Wizards Draw power then quick cast, Preists cast then curry favour..

I see.
Where does it mention this? The priest in my group will be pretty happy at this.

 

*edit*
From whatI can see the example given on page 31-32 in the ToB doesn't mention they can do both.
As far as I can see, based on the example given it doesn't seem to allow it.

 

"All 3 favour would be placed on the divine perseverance card... as soon as the 4thg was available it would be claimed."
Then underneath - "on the characters next turn, during the beginning of turn phase a previously invoked blessing would draw any new favour generated"


I flicked through the FAQ and it wasn't mentioned there either

 

*edit 2*
NVM - it's printed on the card requirements. /facepalm.



#7 k7e9

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:44 AM

Page 121 in the Player's Guide under the heading "In Great Need".

There the rules state that you can curry favour the same round you invoked the blessing. But you add a purple die to the curry favour check.


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#8 Carcosa

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:30 PM

Yep.

If you read the example I gave it even mentions the extra purple dice for doing both in one round.


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#9 ElCommi

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:12 PM

I don't have the player's guide.
I can't seem to find anything for it in either the ToB or Signs of Faith - it must only be included in the players guide. (Or I'm completely missing it)



#10 valvorik

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:19 PM

In Great Need, Tome of Blessings, page 34.


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#11 ElCommi

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:48 AM

In Great Need, Tome of Blessings, page 34.

I stand corrected!



#12 Nimsim

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:15 PM

3: Helmut gains a faith, which is immediately placed on the blessing, but as it requires 6 to trigger it is not "in effect" so provides no benefit to Helmut or Yuri, but also does not loose any recharge tokens either. He ends the turn with no faith.

 

Actually, Favour only goes toward blessings during your action phase and beginning of turn phase. Favour gained at the end of turn phase (or during another players turn) will not go onto the blessing until the beginning of your next turn. However, Currying Favour during your action phase will still immediately send favour to the blessing.

 

This means that a spell you successfully invoke will only take effect during your action phase or the beginning of your turn. If a blessing does not immediately have enough favour, you do not have to re-roll for the blessing when it gains enough favour and just use the effects you originally rolled on it.

 

However, some blessings will say "Immediately..." under an effect line. These effects will resolve right away even if the spell has not gained enough favour to be invoked, yet.

 

So I assume that if you have a blessing go off outside of your turn that it would not count as your action for the turn, correct?


Edited by Nimsim, 30 August 2014 - 02:17 PM.


#13 Carcosa

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 04:56 PM

Nope, this is not right.

Favour is gained "naturally" in the end phase step, and a blessing will immediately attract that favour to the card. If at the end step you have 5 favour on righteous strength, your "new favour" that you get immediately bleeds off to righteous strength, giving it the required 6 to trigger. It then becomes part of the normal "end phase housekeeping", so will be in effect, and loose recharge tokens.



#14 Nimsim

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 05:24 PM

Page 119 of the Creature's Guide (Bolding mine)

 

"Once a blessing is successfully invoked, it automatically draws favour from the character in an attempt to fulfil the requirements.
If the character has enough favour to fuel the blessing, the favour is immediately consumed and the blessing’s effect goes off. If the character does not have enough favour to immediately activate the blessing, all of the character’s favour is drawn out and placedon the blessing card to indicate how much favour has already been accumulated.

 

Thereafter, the character continues to funnel favour to the blessing until either the blessing is invoked or he chooses to abort the blessing. All available favour is funnelled in this way during a character’s Beginning of Turn and Action phases. Any favour generated during a character’s End of Turn Phase or during another player’s turn is stored by the character, and only applied to the blessing during his next Beginning of Turn Phase.

 

As a consequence, a blessing’s results can only be resolved during its invoker’s turn (unless that blessing is a Defenceaction). If a character acquires enough favour to fuel his blessing during his End of Turn Phase or during another player’s turn, he still must wait until his next turn for the blessing to be resolved."



#15 Carcosa

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 05:30 PM

On second inspection you are quite right.

That's what I get for reading the example, and not the text :P



#16 Nimsim

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 05:32 PM

Any idea on the question of whether the spell going off counts as your action for the turn?



#17 Carcosa

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 05:58 PM

I would not think so as it happens semi-independently of the character. You have no control over when the effect activates if it is done by the "held" faith point we are discussing. If it DID take an action, that would be some serious neutering of priest powers.



#18 Nimsim

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:06 PM

That's what I'm thinking. Still, it's interesting that players may have to potentially remember what the results were for an entire round or more when the spell goes off. Also, I'd imagine that the "immediate" effects happen immediately rule, that there's probably a serious case of most-forgotten rule going on there.

#19 Carcosa

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:04 PM

I think that's exactly why it made perfect sense in the example in the players guide, but the text seems whack to me as it adds yet another book keeping layer.

It DOES however prevent priests from raising all but one faith and still getting the action off in the same round.

 

Quite frankly, it makes more sense the wizard way, but I guess they wanted to have it different for priests for some reason.



#20 Nimsim

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:23 PM

I think the idea of it was that using priest powers is inherently safer and slower than wizard ones. The chance of exceeding your equilibrium by too much is very low as compared to the wizard, as any time you have to
Channel more it's when a blessing has already been cast that will suck up the favor you create. It can also be seen as flavor of a priest sitting and praying for his blessing to occur.




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