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Increasing ship component quality at creation


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#1 Thunderclap

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:51 PM

Question: 

 

If I want to purchase a best-quality component at ship creation (say, a sunsear laser-battery), does that require an acquisition roll or can I buy it simply through ship points?

 

Continuing the example, the sunsear is normally 1 SP. If I want it to be best craftsmanship, does it cost 3 SP, using the Battlefleet Koronus chart? Or do I simply buy it at 1 SP and hope I get a lucky roll on Acquisition at the beginning of the game to upgrade it?

 

Thanks!



#2 Tenebrae

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 03:04 PM

Question: 

 

If I want to purchase a best-quality component at ship creation (say, a sunsear laser-battery), does that require an acquisition roll or can I buy it simply through ship points?

 

Continuing the example, the sunsear is normally 1 SP. If I want it to be best craftsmanship, does it cost 3 SP, using the Battlefleet Koronus chart? Or do I simply buy it at 1 SP and hope I get a lucky roll on Acquisition at the beginning of the game to upgrade it?

 

Thanks!

As I understand the rules:

That Best Quality Sunsear Laser will cost you 3 SP.

The Initial ship purchases will not involve Aquisition Tests.



#3 WilliamAsher

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 05:16 PM

I allow the players to buy up component quality at ship creation, which they almost allways do.  As component quality wasn't really in the game at first there isn't really any set rules for it, but it makes sense and the added SP cost adds up pretty quick.



#4 Thunderclap

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 08:59 AM

Thanks for the response!

 

A further query:

 

Does the Morale bonus from superior craftsmanship apply at ship generation? If you have even two or three high quality components on board, it seems like ship morale would reach stratospheric heights.

 

I mean, in things like Edge of the Abyss the sample ships say things like how 105 Morale means the crew adores their captain. What on Earth does 115, 120 Morale, look like? North Korean-style cult of personality? Not important, but funny to think about.



#5 Ruwalk

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 04:50 PM

the morale bonus from superior

craftsman ship is temporary. 



#6 WilliamAsher

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:24 PM

No, as Ruwalk stated that is a temporary gain when you install the part.  It is more for when you are out there with a damaged ship and demoralized crew.  I have never seen it actually affect game play.  If you want permanent Morale bonuses install Best Quality Crew Improvements.  My players ship has a 118 morale, the Angelson Death Cult worship the captain as a scion of the Emperor.  They also rarely even end up dropping below 100. 



#7 Kasatka

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 06:20 AM

Or you know get Servitor Crew and then ignore any and all reference to Morale :P


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#8 WilliamAsher

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:21 PM

The BS penalty for Servitor Crews tends to keep players away.



#9 Tenebrae

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 02:16 AM

One of my groups had servitor crew on a torp-raider.

Not a good investment I thought - though I have been known to suggest servitor crews (non-combat) transports.



#10 Errant Knight

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 12:47 PM

The rules on morale aren't completely clear and I've run into problems with them.  It's quite possible, especially with a large ship that has 20-30 components, and a couple dozen endeavors under their belt, to have ships with a morale of 150+, which is quite absurd.  Archeotech components should count as BC, as implied under the sidebar Craftsmanship and Morale in Battlefleet Koronus on page 17.  The same sidesbar states that such components cannot increase morale "to above the ship's maximum level," while never stating what contitutes a ship's maximum level.  The core rules specifically state (p. 224) that morale lies in the range of 1-100, not 1-100+.  Then again, there's at least one supplement out there with rival RT ships having crews with morale in excess of 100.  All of this = confusion.  The problem comes when looking at the average Imperial Navy ship.  Should RT vessels be regularly sailing around with morales higher than a naval military vessel?  There's plenty of historical evidence to back up either argument if you want to use the Age of Sail as evidence.

 

Here's how I've handled it.  Components and upgrades that specifically call for a morale increase/decrease raise/lower the "permanent bar."  Quality can only be used to offset decreases, but not increase morale above the "permanent bar."  For example, after adding all stated increases (Temple-Shrine, etc.) and subtracting all stated decreases (luxury passenger quarters, etc.), you have the "permanent bar."  Good quality can't increase morale past that and poor quality can't decrease morale past 1/2 that.  This sets a reasonable upper limit so my players never again have those ships with 150 morale and encourages the use of some components that might not otherwise ever see the light of day.  This means the absolute upper limit of morale is about 114 (not including a Euphoric Life Sustainer which could increase it to 122 at the cost of 10 Crew Rating).  I find that more reasonable.  As a side note, since putting this limit on morale I've seen a giant increase in the use of Bilge-rat Quarters.



#11 Tenebrae

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 01:19 PM

Here's how I've handled it.  Components and upgrades that specifically call for a morale increase/decrease raise/lower the "permanent bar."  Quality can only be used to offset decreases, but not increase morale above the "permanent bar."  For example, after adding all stated increases (Temple-Shrine, etc.) and subtracting all stated decreases (luxury passenger quarters, etc.), you have the "permanent bar."  Good quality can't increase morale past that and poor quality can't decrease morale past 1/2 that.  This sets a reasonable upper limit so my players never again have those ships with 150 morale and encourages the use of some components that might not otherwise ever see the light of day.  This means the absolute upper limit of morale is about 114 (not including a Euphoric Life Sustainer which could increase it to 122 at the cost of 10 Crew Rating).  I find that more reasonable.  As a side note, since putting this limit on morale I've seen a giant increase in the use of Bilge-rat Quarters.

Reasonably close to RAW as far as I can tell.

How on Earth did you get to 150+?

By missing the not that the Morale effect from component quality is temporary, only lasting a few weeks (rarely enough to get anything but a raider from the biozone to the Warp-Jump area?



#12 Errant Knight

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:06 AM

Tenebrae, can you tell me where you find that a morale increase is "temporary?"  In BFK, it uses the words, "not permanent," but that's specifically tied to decreases in morale.  I always assumed this to mean that decreases brought on by using poor craftsmanship components could be offset by various measures, such as using the Inquiry skill's special rule to root out dissidents.

 

Heh.  I often miss small details.  I can't read FFGs books too closely without getting eye twitches or muscle spasms.  The lack of professional editing drives me crazy.  I positively get my panties in a bunch that no one at the company seems to know the difference between "alternately" and "alternatively."  FFG found themselves a market where they can ignore the rules of editing, and that's quite a feat for a company that makes its bread and butter by publishing.



#13 Tenebrae

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:16 PM

At the moment, no, I can't find it.

I'll get back to you if I do.

 

The fact that I can't bothers annoys me, especially since I was certain this bonus morale lasted for only a few weeks.

I'll keep looking, but it does appear I was wrong.



#14 Kasatka

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:33 AM

The BS penalty for Servitor Crews tends to keep players away.

 Best craftsmanship Servitor Crew + Best Craftsmanship Crew Improvements should, if memory serves gives you 45 crew rating. A character being Chief Bosun would bring it up to 50. With the -10 penalty to BS tests bringing it back down to 40. 40 is a good enough base line considering you can do extended actions to Lock On etc to boost it. Plus ultimately why aren't your player characters doing the shooting rolls? :P


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#15 Tenebrae

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:16 PM

 

The BS penalty for Servitor Crews tends to keep players away.

 Best craftsmanship Servitor Crew + Best Craftsmanship Crew Improvements should, if memory serves gives you 45 crew rating. A character being Chief Bosun would bring it up to 50. With the -10 penalty to BS tests bringing it back down to 40. 40 is a good enough base line considering you can do extended actions to Lock On etc to boost it. Plus ultimately why aren't your player characters doing the shooting rolls? :P

Myeah, but if you re-read Servitor Crew, it appears to provide a -10 penalty to BS tests regardless of who's shooting.

Apparently the gun crews are slow about taking orders. Or something.



#16 Kasatka

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:59 AM

 

 

The BS penalty for Servitor Crews tends to keep players away.

 Best craftsmanship Servitor Crew + Best Craftsmanship Crew Improvements should, if memory serves gives you 45 crew rating. A character being Chief Bosun would bring it up to 50. With the -10 penalty to BS tests bringing it back down to 40. 40 is a good enough base line considering you can do extended actions to Lock On etc to boost it. Plus ultimately why aren't your player characters doing the shooting rolls? :P

Myeah, but if you re-read Servitor Crew, it appears to provide a -10 penalty to BS tests regardless of who's shooting.

Apparently the gun crews are slow about taking orders. Or something.

 

In which case its a flat -10 to the PCs BS test, and considering how stacking with the bonuses players can get i don't see it being much of an issue.

But yes i will concede that Servitor Crews make your guns less accurate.


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#17 Errant Knight

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 02:55 PM

BC Crew Improvements to a BC Servitor Crew???

 

Isn't that a bit like a Best Best Craftsmanship Servitor Crew?  Hey, it's your game.  Knock yourself out.  I fail to see how spiffy uniforms would make a servitor better, though.


Edited by Errant Knight, 25 July 2014 - 02:56 PM.


#18 Lohandria

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:47 PM

BC Crew Improvements to a BC Servitor Crew???

 

Isn't that a bit like a Best Best Craftsmanship Servitor Crew?  Hey, it's your game.  Knock yourself out.  I fail to see how spiffy uniforms would make a servitor better, though.

Servitors like to feel pretty too... Though thinking about it my mechanicus agents are rather suspicious. I need to investigate their claims of improvements. Those tenticles...I mean mechadendrites of theirs seem rather sleneshy.


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#19 Errant Knight

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:26 PM

Oh, and Tenebrae, I forgot about the talent, Master & Commander.  It increases morale by 5 and I always allowed that to raise the "permanent bar."  So there's another increase in maximum possible morale.

 

Really, it's enough to go crazy on after awhile.  Give your RT Master & Commander and Into the Jaws of Hell and morale becomes a non-issue in any section of the ship that character is currently standing in.

 

Just make sure to give your RT plenty of willpower.  Some of these talents don't work very well if your RT is running away.


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#20 Tenebrae

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:46 AM

Oh, and Tenebrae, I forgot about the talent, Master & Commander.  It increases morale by 5 and I always allowed that to raise the "permanent bar."  So there's another increase in maximum possible morale.

Same here.

 

It's just the components. That really bothers me, I was so certain...






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