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Help with a Human Melee Marauder


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#1 tarrenel

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 01:46 PM

I am making a human marauder and would like some input on which way I should go with my points and gear. I want  to be a melee monster, so with my starting points how should I spend them and when I get more points which way should I go with them? What gear should I be looking for (with mods) also. Thanks for all your happy.



#2 Plan b

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:05 PM

Take obligation to get 10 extra xp.

 

Take brawn 5

 

Starting gear heavy clothing, heavy blaster pistol (stun only). You don't need starting melee weapons, the universe is full of them.

 

Later, more armour, jetpack, a mono edged weapon (any)

 

Done



#3 awayputurwpn

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:11 PM

I'd go Brawn 4 and Willpower 3. That's 100 of your starting XP. Spend the other 10 XP on any two of the 5XP talents at the top of your tree. This doesn't necessitate taking any extra Obligation, which you may well need for credits with which to purchase good equipment.

 

IMO Brawn 5 is shooting yourself in the foot. You can be really good at Melee with a Brawn of 4, and the extra Willpower makes you better at 1) Coercion and 2) withstanding Strain. 

 

When you get more XP, it should be obvious where to spend it. Be sensitive to how the campaign is going, and make the purchases you feel are appropriate. Try not to go in with a plan of how you're going to spend the first 100 XP, but also you can take the long view when spending XP. If that makes sense.

 

EDIT: I would suggest either the vibrosword (nice for the Defensive) or Vibro-ax (more monster-ish). The Force Pike is cool too. Most mods are gonna be out of your immediate price range, but any of the melee mods are great. 

 

Also, all this really depends on whether you have any supplemental material (like Dangerous Covenants, etc)!


Edited by awayputurwpn, 11 July 2014 - 02:14 PM.

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#4 2P51

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:42 PM

I'd go Brawn 4 and Presence 3.  Presence will govern Cool checks which will be the bulk of your initiative rolls and you can grab 1 rank of Cool as one of your two non career skills with Human.

 

For weapon I would say Force Pike, modded with a weighted head and superior customization when you can afford it.  Modded out that will give you a weapon that adds +6 on damage potentially and that you can also attack a target's Strain with.  It will also potentially give you the Concussive weapon effect, which if activated, prevents a target from making any actions that turn.


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#5 LibrariaNPC

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 03:44 PM

Just a note, you can be pretty beastly at character creation even with just 3 Brawn. One of my players had Brawn 3 Intellect 4 (Doctor/Marauder) and was demolishing troopers with a vibro-ax.

 

Also note: I'm not a fan of crunching numbers to be a beast, but I know some crunch when I see it, thus the below information.

 

If you want to be a human and be great at the get-go, you would really want to stick with Brawn 4, and choose either Presence or Willpower at 3, as both of them will be necessary for either type of initiative. If you snag another 10XP via Obligation,snag both of them at 3. Yeah, it'll hurt at the start, but ensuring you'll be offering to your initiative totals (especially when alone) isn't a bad idea.

 

As for gear, at the start, you're really going to be at a snag with only 500 credits. You can either:

 

1) Dump it into a decent suit of armor (Suns of Fortune has cheap armor, and I think Dangerous Covenants has some affordable options). Padded armor is the best you can get at chargen sans Obligation in the Core Rulebook. Rely on grabbing bottles, table legs, and improvised weapons to be a beast.

2) Get cheapo-armor and an affordable weapon. Again, Suns of Fortune is your friend for the armor side unless you just want Heavy Clothing. Gaffi sticks are oddly useful for the price (that Disorient 3 is great to set people up) and Shock Gloves are great to mess with people when you're doing the brawl approach.

3) Go straight for the weapon. The Force Pike, while not very subtle and hard to hide, is by far the best weapon you can get for 500 credits. Stun setting, Pierce 2 AND it deals +3 damage. 

 

When it comes to after chargen XP, I'd split between raising Melee up to 4 and getting talents that raise damage and crits on the way to getting Dedication. It's a pretty beastly approach and may not net you much friends due to the pure focus, but if it's what you want. . .


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#6 Plan b

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:42 PM


 

If you want to be a human and be great at the get-go, you would really want to stick with Brawn 4, and choose either Presence or Willpower at 3, as both of them will be necessary for either type of initiative. If you snag another 10XP via Obligation,snag both of them at 3. Yeah, it'll hurt at the start, but ensuring you'll be offering to your initiative totals (especially when alone) isn't a bad idea.

 

 

 

That would be great expect, you can't afford that unless your take 20 extra exp from obligation.

 

Suns of Fortune is THE book for cheaper than normal options and been a hamster.

 

Personally i favour power now approach, thus Brawn 5, your going marauder, its specialised in been tough and hitting people.

 

You'll have will 2 and pres 2 which to be honest isn't crippling as some people think (from playing a character with will 1). 

 

You can specialise or generalise however as a marauder more than anyone spec, i'd suggest specialise. 



#7 bradknowles

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 05:58 PM

If you want to be a human and be great at the get-go, you would really want to stick with Brawn 4, and choose either Presence or Willpower at 3, as both of them will be necessary for either type of initiative. If you snag another 10XP via Obligation,snag both of them at 3. Yeah, it'll hurt at the start, but ensuring you'll be offering to your initiative totals (especially when alone) isn't a bad idea.


I play a Wookiee Maurauder with Brawn 5 and Willpower 1. I’ve survived okay, but I have wished for a long time that I had made my character more balanced at the start. If I could be 4/3/2 instead of 5/2/1, I’d be really happy.
 
However, what I wish for is not necessarily what others would want.
 

As for gear, at the start, you're really going to be at a snag with only 500 credits. You can either:
 
1) Dump it into a decent suit of armor (Suns of Fortune has cheap armor, and I think Dangerous Covenants has some affordable options). Padded armor is the best you can get at chargen sans Obligation in the Core Rulebook. Rely on grabbing bottles, table legs, and improvised weapons to be a beast.


Padded Armor is the best you can get that will give you full Soak 2, for 500 cr. However, a Catch Vest only costs 300 cr and gives you Soak 2 against Energy Weapons, which is what I tend to be more worried about as a Maurauder. Nice thing is that can be stacked on top of other armor, like Heavy Clothing, or even Padded Armor.  The only problem with a Catch Vest is that it is Rarity 9, which can potentially be a problem — especially if you’re not a Correllian.
 
See http://swrpg.viluppo...quipment/armor/ for a complete list of all known armor in the game that has been published by FFG in one of the official books or modules.
 

2) Get cheapo-armor and an affordable weapon. Again, Suns of Fortune is your friend for the armor side unless you just want Heavy Clothing. Gaffi sticks are oddly useful for the price (that Disorient 3 is great to set people up) and Shock Gloves are great to mess with people when you're doing the brawl approach.


IMO, you want a melee weapon. My Wookiee is pretty good at Brawl, but the damage doesn’t really start piling up and get through their armor unless he has a weapon in his hands. So, I would make Brawl a "good enough" skill, but I would focus more on Melee as the main combat skill for Engaged range.
 
See http://swrpg.viluppo...ons/category/3/ for a list of all known melee weapons that have been published by FFG.
 

3) Go straight for the weapon. The Force Pike, while not very subtle and hard to hide, is by far the best weapon you can get for 500 credits. Stun setting, Pierce 2 AND it deals +3 damage.


The Force Pike does as much damage as a Vibro-Axe, has the same crit rating as a Vibro-Axe, has as many Hard Points as a Vibro-Axe (which means it can take the same kind and number of attachments/modifications), has a Stun setting that you can choose to use (which is not possible with the Vibro-Axe), costs less than a Vibro-Axe, is lower Rarity than a Vibro-Axe, and is also lower Encumbrance than a Vibro-Axe. Relative to the Vibro-Axe, the one and only thing you lose is the Vicious 3 rating.

I went with Vibro-Axe originally, but now I’m wishing that I had gone with Force Pike instead — and I will be switching as soon as I can get to a suitable place in the game.
 

When it comes to after chargen XP, I'd split between raising Melee up to 4 and getting talents that raise damage and crits on the way to getting Dedication. It's a pretty beastly approach and may not net you much friends due to the pure focus, but if it's what you want. . .


If you’re the Maurauder, that means you’re the Main Battle Tank of the group. They might be a little unhappy that they can’t kill things in combat like you do, or they can’t take the kind of damage that you do, but they will be happy to have you around to save their asses. And then you can be envious of them being able to do everything else in the game, while the one and only thing you can do is melee combat.


Unless stated otherwise, these are just my personal opinions about how I feel things should work.  Even if I quote chapter and verse of a particular rulebook, only the part that's quoted is likely to actually be official.  Each GM will have to decide for themselves what rules they will use and which ones they won't, and how they will interpret the rules they do use.  That is their right -- and their responsibility.

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#8 LibrariaNPC

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 07:43 PM

 


 

If you want to be a human and be great at the get-go, you would really want to stick with Brawn 4, and choose either Presence or Willpower at 3, as both of them will be necessary for either type of initiative. If you snag another 10XP via Obligation,snag both of them at 3. Yeah, it'll hurt at the start, but ensuring you'll be offering to your initiative totals (especially when alone) isn't a bad idea.

 

 

 

That would be great expect, you can't afford that unless your take 20 extra exp from obligation.

 

 

 

 

You're right, I did my math wrong on that one. Been that kind of day in the office.


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#9 HappyDaze

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:28 PM

If you combine with Enforcer or Gadgeteer, you can get Stunning Blow. Now you can do stun damage with a Vibro-Ax, so there's need to ever use a Force Pike again.

 

For those saying that it's OK to give up the Vicious of the Vibro-Ax, I have to wonder if you've discovered that cheesed out critical hits are the way the Marauder pulls ahead in the offense. If he's just doing damage, he can't keep up with the blaster slingers.


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#10 darkdeal

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 08:52 AM

Marauder has several lethal blows talents that would do well with a superior vibro-sword with an edge. That makes the weapon auto crit every time.



#11 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:15 PM

Marauder has several lethal blows talents that would do well with a superior vibro-sword with an edge. That makes the weapon auto crit every time.

It does not 'auto crit every time' since it's quite possible for the attack to generate Threat that can cancel out the free Advantage.


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#12 bradknowles

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:29 PM

If you combine with Enforcer or Gadgeteer, you can get Stunning Blow. Now you can do stun damage with a Vibro-Ax, so there's need to ever use a Force Pike again.


Speaking only for myself, I wouldn’t allow Stunning Blow with a Vibro-Weapon, unless the weapon in question is specifically designed to have a mode where it does stun damage. So, you could do it with a Force Pike in stun mode, or with a Force Pike that has the power turned off, but you couldn’t do it with a Force Pike in "kill mode".

IMO, the talent only gets you so far, and the weapon has to be suitable to be used in conjunction with it.

But then I think we’ve had this … discussion … before.

For those saying that it's OK to give up the Vicious of the Vibro-Ax, I have to wonder if you've discovered that cheesed out critical hits are the way the Marauder pulls ahead in the offense. If he's just doing damage, he can't keep up with the blaster slingers.


Auto-crit when you hit. Yup. I’m quite familiar with that method. I use it every time my Wookiee Marauder goes into combat.

And with a Force Pike, with Mono-molecular Edge, you could do the same thing as you would with Mono-molecular Edge on a Vibro-Axe — reduce the crit rating to one. You wouldn’t get the automatic Vicious 3 when you crit, but I am willing to give that up in order to avoid having to kill just about everything we fight.

I’m fine with hitting them with enough stun damage to take them out of the fight (because minions and rivals don’t have a separate Stun Threshold), but in our game they’re still just stunned and not actually dead.

Unless stated otherwise, these are just my personal opinions about how I feel things should work.  Even if I quote chapter and verse of a particular rulebook, only the part that's quoted is likely to actually be official.  Each GM will have to decide for themselves what rules they will use and which ones they won't, and how they will interpret the rules they do use.  That is their right -- and their responsibility.

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#13 2P51

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:32 PM

The thing with selecting a spec after the marauder tree or in conjunction with the marauder tree that you need to bear in mind is strain.  The tree itself does essentially nothing for it, so if you want to do something to buff it, and protect it,  as well as recover it since the spec does use a lot of strain with frenzied attack, you might want to look at other specs that help you out with that.  Engineer saboteur is an excellent spec for doing just that, while the skills aren't necessarily complementary, the first couple of rows of the talent tree are quite useful in regards to strain and strain management.


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#14 bradknowles

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:32 PM

It does not 'auto crit every time' since it's quite possible for the attack to generate Threat that can cancel out the free Advantage.


If all you need is one Advantage in order to score a crit, then you do — effectively — crit every time you hit. A hit requires only one Success, and in this case a crit requires only one Advantage.

If you’re a Marauder and you’re using this method to fight with melee weapons, you’re almost certainly throwing enough dice that you will almost certainly get at least one Success every time you swing, and you will almost certainly get at least one Advantage every time you swing.


I’ve got a program that can do the probability calculations, if you want to take this discussion that far.




[ Edit: Correct typo ]

Edited by bradknowles, 12 July 2014 - 03:33 PM.

Unless stated otherwise, these are just my personal opinions about how I feel things should work.  Even if I quote chapter and verse of a particular rulebook, only the part that's quoted is likely to actually be official.  Each GM will have to decide for themselves what rules they will use and which ones they won't, and how they will interpret the rules they do use.  That is their right -- and their responsibility.

"A FFG Star Wars Index" by Aahzmandius_Karrde: <http://community.fan...ar-wars-index/> | Github project at <https://github.com/k...rde/ffg_swrpg/>

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#15 bradknowles

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:36 PM

The thing with selecting a spec after the marauder tree or in conjunction with the marauder tree that you need to bear in mind is strain.  The tree itself does essentially nothing for it, so if you want to do something to buff it, and protect it,  as well as recover it since the spec does use a lot of strain with frenzied attack, you might want to look at other specs that help you out with that.  Engineer saboteur is an excellent spec for doing just that, while the skills aren't necessarily complementary, the first couple of rows of the talent tree are quite useful in regards to strain and strain management.


For EotE, Marauder/Doctor is a great combo. With Doctor, you can get +3 grit, +2 ranks of Resolve, and +1 Dedication for the low, low price of just 110 XP. You can even pick up a few extra talents along the way that will help you be able to heal others, as you grab the other talents that you need to help shore up your character.

I say this as a person who has a Wookiee Marauder/Heavy who just added the Doctor specialization to the list.

Unless stated otherwise, these are just my personal opinions about how I feel things should work.  Even if I quote chapter and verse of a particular rulebook, only the part that's quoted is likely to actually be official.  Each GM will have to decide for themselves what rules they will use and which ones they won't, and how they will interpret the rules they do use.  That is their right -- and their responsibility.

"A FFG Star Wars Index" by Aahzmandius_Karrde: <http://community.fan...ar-wars-index/> | Github project at <https://github.com/k...rde/ffg_swrpg/>

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#16 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 04:13 PM

 

It does not 'auto crit every time' since it's quite possible for the attack to generate Threat that can cancel out the free Advantage.


If all you need is one Advantage in order to score a crit, then you do — effectively — crit every time you hit. A hit requires only one Success, and in this case a crit requires only one Advantage.

If you’re a Marauder and you’re using this method to fight with melee weapons, you’re almost certainly throwing enough dice that you will almost certainly get at least one Success every time you swing, and you will almost certainly get at least one Advantage every time you swing.


I’ve got a program that can do the probability calculations, if you want to take this discussion that far.




[ Edit: Correct typo ]

 

If it's not 100%, it's not an auto crit. That's the only probability calculation needed.


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#17 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 04:15 PM

 

If you combine with Enforcer or Gadgeteer, you can get Stunning Blow. Now you can do stun damage with a Vibro-Ax, so there's need to ever use a Force Pike again.


Speaking only for myself, I wouldn’t allow Stunning Blow with a Vibro-Weapon, unless the weapon in question is specifically designed to have a mode where it does stun damage. So, you could do it with a Force Pike in stun mode, or with a Force Pike that has the power turned off, but you couldn’t do it with a Force Pike in "kill mode".

IMO, the talent only gets you so far, and the weapon has to be suitable to be used in conjunction with it.

But then I think we’ve had this … discussion … before.
 

Stunning Blow is designed exactly for the purpose of allowing non-lethal use of melee weapons that normally do lethal damage. You can do what you want, but if disallow a Talent to do what it's made to do, then you're doing it wrong.


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#18 bradknowles

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 08:03 PM

Stunning Blow is designed exactly for the purpose of allowing non-lethal use of melee weapons that normally do lethal damage. You can do what you want, but if disallow a Talent to do what it's made to do, then you're doing it wrong.


If the weapon in question could be used in a non-lethal manner, then I would allow that talent to work with it. But unless the vibro-weapon in question has a particular stun mode, then in my book it isn’t possible to use it in a non-lethal manner no matter what talents you might have.

That’s just one of the things you give up by going with a vibro-weapon that doesn’t have a built-in stun mode.


There are some blasters that don’t have a stun setting. I see no difference in this respect.

Unless stated otherwise, these are just my personal opinions about how I feel things should work.  Even if I quote chapter and verse of a particular rulebook, only the part that's quoted is likely to actually be official.  Each GM will have to decide for themselves what rules they will use and which ones they won't, and how they will interpret the rules they do use.  That is their right -- and their responsibility.

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#19 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 08:06 PM

 

Stunning Blow is designed exactly for the purpose of allowing non-lethal use of melee weapons that normally do lethal damage. You can do what you want, but if disallow a Talent to do what it's made to do, then you're doing it wrong.


If the weapon in question could be used in a non-lethal manner, then I would allow that talent to work with it. But unless the vibro-weapon in question has a particular stun mode, then in my book it isn’t possible to use it in a non-lethal manner no matter what talents you might have.

That’s just one of the things you give up by going with a vibro-weapon that doesn’t have a built-in stun mode.


There are some blasters that don’t have a stun setting. I see no difference in this respect.

 

If the weapon has a built-in stun mode, then you get absolutely nothing out of Stunning Blow. The only purpose of the talent is to allow a weapon that can't ordinarily do stun damage to do stun damage. In effect, having Stunning Blow just gives all of your Melee weapons Stun Setting.


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#20 Jamwes

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:52 AM

 

Stunning Blow is designed exactly for the purpose of allowing non-lethal use of melee weapons that normally do lethal damage. You can do what you want, but if disallow a Talent to do what it's made to do, then you're doing it wrong.


If the weapon in question could be used in a non-lethal manner, then I would allow that talent to work with it. But unless the vibro-weapon in question has a particular stun mode, then in my book it isn’t possible to use it in a non-lethal manner no matter what talents you might have.

That’s just one of the things you give up by going with a vibro-weapon that doesn’t have a built-in stun mode.


There are some blasters that don’t have a stun setting. I see no difference in this respect.

 

 

Not to sound too flippant, but you can't hit someone with the flat of the axe blade or with the handle? I'd think that the intent of the talent would be training to use a weapon in a way the weapon's creator didn't originally intend, which would be using the blunt parts of a weapon to deal stun damage.


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