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[Noob-Question] Can you list me the main errors of CORP?


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#1 Gregorius21778

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:51 AM

Hi everyone,

 

me and a friend of mine had been playing Netrunner (Cards of the core box and all of the first cycle). He is always the Netrunner, I am always the Corp. I cannot remember how often we played, but it must be between 30 und 50 times.

And I never ever won. Yes, Gentleman, I am really stupid/a noob/whatever.

I cannot be the Cards. I tried different things, different decks (40 or 45, depending on identitiy), different approaches.

Basically, my Opponent puts Katie Jones (and other Cred Generators) to good use and simply sweeps through my ice with programs that can be "pushed in strength" with credits.

But I guess the Problem is not what he is doing, but what -I- am doing. With so many lost games in a row I must be doing something wrong that is "Basic" otherwise. It is not the rules, so. I read them carefully, checked the rules for his Cards twice and thrice, for mine as well..it is not that way.

So, could please point out to me what you know/assuem to be GENERAL NOOB MISTAKES so I can cross-check my game Play? If you know of any good "corp gameplay tutorial", I am all ears as well.

Basically, I try to secure my Servers with ice, raise it only when I am attacked, try to have enough ice that "Ends run" to I have really STOPPING power and lately avoided Bioroid since it can be by-passed with clicks alone. It seems that developing my agendas takes to much time... he either gets them before I have them through or takes them from my Hand if I am to angst-ridde to put them onto a Server.

and I never have enough resources, it seems. Despite those nice Haas-Bioroid Agendas "Adam" & "Eve"

Thanks for bearing with me!


Edited by Gregorius21778, 11 July 2014 - 04:51 AM.


#2 Wh0isTh3D0ct0r

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 05:38 AM

Are you placing your Corp cards face-up or something? :P

 

What I'm getting as is that your greatest enemy in this game is foreknowledge. You must not allow an opponent to predict your moves or figure out what a card is before seeing it. You need to change your basic behavior during the game, because you are most likely leaking tells all over the place. Agendas should look like traps, and vice versa. Weak ICE should appear strong, and vice versa. A facedown card is your greatest asset!

 

My suggestion is to switch to playing Runner for a while so that you see the Corp from the other perspective. In fact, just switch decks. By doing so, you will either see some good Corp strategy in action or you will see blatant Corp errors that need to be avoided.


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#3 etherial

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 07:52 AM

Generally speaking, when one side always wins, you're probably playing it wrong. Common errors that lead to Corp losses include:

 

1. Paying Rez Cost when Installing Cards

2. Trashing ICE when subroutines are broken

3. Trashing ICE when Agendas are scored/stolen

4. Giving the Runner a free draw + four Clicks every turn

5. Forgetting to shuffle HQ when the Runner Accesses (allowing a clever Runner player to be able to guess where the Agendas are).

 

Also, you need a turn at Runner. Maybe you are losing because you don't understand how he's doing what he's doing, and once the tables are turned, you'll be better able to keep him out. The gameplay usually goes through three phases:

 

1. Free Running. Servers have little, if any, defenses. The Runner usually needs at most one breaker.

2. Lockdown. The Corp has enough ICE that the Runner can only rarely get into Servers. Note the ICE doesn't always have to be Rezzed -- two mystery ICE on a Server is frequently a much bigger threat than one Unrezzed ICE.

3. The Grind. The Runner has all breakers out and their economy is humming. All servers are vulnerable given enough time.

 

Note that only one of these phases -- Lockdown -- favors the Corp. That's the only time you can expect to keep the Runner out. The rest of the game, you have to keep the Runner busy running where the Agendas aren't.

 

Also, are you aware that Adonis Campaign and Eve Campagin are Assets and not Agendas?


Edited by etherial, 11 July 2014 - 07:54 AM.


#4 Khouri

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 09:48 AM

I remember corp being particularly problematic for me when I was starting out, it seemed the runner had the upper hand all of the time and there was nothing the corp could do and it was indeed a frustrating experience. One of the coolest things about Netrunner is that it is an asymmetric card game, but this does mean that players have to be aware that the corp and runner have quite different play-styles when it comes to approaching the game.

 

My biggest ever Corp mistake, not putting ICE on R&D against a shaper (double index'd for no ICE and multiple stolen agendas). Very generally, corp turn one should be putting ICE on HQ and R&D and playing a money card (but of course in everything Netrunner, this isn't golden and depends on the situation and/or options available).

 

The first thing to sort out is money, ensure that you have sufficient money cards (Hedge Fund, PADs, Campaigns if that is your thing) to keep you comfortable. Without money your options become limited, and a corp without options means the Runner can take advantage.

 

Second, look to the cost of a lot of your ICE, ideally it should be distributed across type, and strength but importantly you have to have a mix of cheap and expensive. Too many cheap and not enough expensive means you will likely be able to rez it all, but it isn't going to be all that efficient to get through, alternatively too much expensive ICE and the ICE you can rez will hurt but you can run out of resources and therefore options.

 

Thirdly, don't expect the runner to run on your traps, ever. If you are pinning all your hopes on the runner doing something daft (like accessing a 4 token Project Junebug) chances are they will not and all those resources go to waste. However, the flip side to this goes to the heart of what makes corp fun and entertaining to play - forcing the runner to make decisions, none of which are good (and mixing things up so that what they thought was good turns out not to be). So play out PAD campaigns into remote severs, at 4 to trash they will be unlikely to go for it, but then every so often perhaps drop a Snare! down instead (if they are too comfortable with running and trashing your asset economy). Also here it can be very important to play each card in a similar way to prevent the runner for working out when you have played something important or a bluff. Agenda's going into a remote don't have to be advanced straight away (they might be a trap or just a throwaway asset/upgrade), make the Runner wonder what it is and feel they have to run to check it out.

 

Fourthly, its all in the timing. While it would be nice to sit behind massive ICE walls and just deny the Runner any form of access, chances are this takes a long time to set up and even then after acquiring enough money the runner will be able to break into whatever server they desire even if it covered by 6 nasty pieces of ICE. But unless their economy is crazy chances are they cannot do this every turn, so make them use resources to get to something they think is important and in the window of opportunity when they are low/out of resources that is when you can try and score agendas.

 

Lastly, one of the (possibly) important things to consider is having suitable tag punishment in the deck. If the runner feels that you cannot do anything to them when tagged they won't waste the resources (time and money) clearing the tags. Whereas if they think you will burn their house down as soon as a tag is floating those tags (and along with them some of their resources) will disappear pretty quick.

 

A side note on HB bioroid ICE, it is a bit of a strange beast, and allowing the runner to click through it when you just need them stopped can be really annoying. But the point of this ICE is to be taxing and provide the runner with options. A click or credits to break through bioroid X? Being the only protection of a server, particularly early can be problematic, but if by the late game the Runner has spent 20+ clicks breaking through your ICE for few benefits, that's 20 clicks they didn't spend on doing more useful things like actually deploying ICE breakers or playing events. For example Eli 1.0 is an excellent little bioroid barrier (two EtR subroutines) means that it is quite taxing for most breakers to get through and costs half a runners turn to click through. Yes being the only piece of ICE on a sever offers little protection early, but once they start getting stacked with other ICE, the Runner can't click through them all (even if they did, baiting into a trap or non-critical asset becomes more useful as they spend an entire turn getting snared! or to see an Eve campaign).


Edited by Khouri, 11 July 2014 - 09:51 AM.

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#5 XSedi

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:13 AM

switch sides with your friend play Runner for yourself and look at it from the opposite side. See for sourself when the runner has problems and what he thinks running against the corp.



#6 Gregorius21778

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 04:48 AM

Hi Khouri & thanks for your feedback.

 

How many "money cards" do you usually have in a 45 cards deck?

 


The first thing to sort out is money, ensure that you have sufficient money cards (Hedge Fund, PADs, Campaigns if that is your thing) to keep you comfortable. Without money your options become limited, and a corp without options means the Runner can take advantage.


#7 Kahadras

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:07 AM

In my HB deck I have the Engineering the Future identity which provides a credit the first time I install a card every turn (and when are you not going to install cards). I then have three Marked Accounts, three Pad Campaigns, three Melange Mining Corp, three Subliminal Messaging and three Hedge Fund. By running with plenty of cheap ICE in the deck I've never had much of a problem with cash flow.

 

My usual thinking when it comes to Corp is....

 

1. Plenty of credit generation. Having a decent cash flow is important for both sides and you don't want to have the runner passing over all your un-rezzed ICE while you spend clicks on trying to get together the credits to rez them.

 

2. Cheap ICE (which leads nicely on from point 1). Reasonably costed ICE doesn't put a strain on your economy and allows you to rez multiple pieces of ICE a turn. More expencive ICE has it's place in the deck but I always pack plenty of stuff that costs 3 credits or less to rez.

 

3. He who defends everything, defends nothing. Don't ICE up servers that don't need it. Look after R&D, HQ and the servers that you are going to be advancing your agendas on.

 

4. Be unpredictable. This can sometimes come back to hurt you but it makes it harder for your opponant to predict what you're going to do. I remember once dumping a couple of agenda into my archives because I didn't have the ICE to protect them. It was a gamble but it paid off.

 

5. Have some traps. It makes runners a lot more wary of running if they know they could face plant into a Cerebral Overwriter or Project Junebug. 

 

6. What an agenda does is not as important as how easy it is to score. I really like 3 cost agenda due to the fact I can play it down and then score it next turn without needing to reveal to my opponant that it's advancable. The benefits you get are nice but at the end of the days it's the 7 agenda points that win you the game.


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#8 Khouri

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:12 AM

In answering I'd like to make a side point about the corp deck size. When building a corp deck, unlike the Runner, it is not really in your interest to stick to the absolute minimum deck size. In a 45 card deck it is usually better to use up the full 49 cards allowed under the deck building rules to help reduce the "density" of agendas in the deck (it also gives 4 extra draws should your game go that distance).

 

I tend to run with 3 - 6 "burst" economy cards which tend to be the operations (hedge fund, beanstock royalties etc). Great for getting you going, but unfortunately unless you have a way of recurring them, not a long-term solution. Aside from getting your economy going, these cards also don't give the runner any options when accessing them (they pull out Beanstock Royalties from your hand, and all they can do is put it back*).

 

* As standard, there are Anarch cards that allow trashing of cards without trash costs.

 

I'm notoriously bad at the other kind of "asset-based" economy that is really useful for the long term (this is your cards like PAD campaign and HB's advertising campaigns). These don't have the quick fix of the operation based cards but, if left alone by the Runner, will give the corp "free" money over many turns. Again I'll try to have between 3 and 6 of these cards in a deck as well. PAD campaign doesn't seem like all that useful a card at first, but its high trash cost and that the money it gives you doesn't require any further clicks beyond the install are all nice features (investment in assets is basically the way the corp gets around only having three clicks a turn).

 

The trick, as always, is to balance what you need in a given deck. Some decks don't need a lot of money, so a handful of money cards is all that is needed. Others burn through credits like there is no tomorrow and requires a different emphasis on money.



#9 Khouri

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:26 AM

6. What an agenda does is not as important as how easy it is to score. I really like 3 cost agenda due to the fact I can play it down and then score it next turn without needing to reveal to my opponant that it's advancable. The benefits you get are nice but at the end of the days it's the 7 agenda points that win you the game.

This is a very good point. While it is nice to have agendas that do something cool, unless the deck has a plan to get these scored those 5/3 Priority Requisition agendas are going to be tough to score.

 

3/2 (advance/points) agendas, like Accelerated Beta Test are generally the best in the game. Not because of their abilities, but as Kahadras points out, being easy to score is a real benefit. 4 and 5 advancement agendas are problematic because they require a certain amount of broadcasting that "this might be an agenda and something worth running on". This is where having some of those traps to keep the runner honest come in, if they think the install-advance-advance is a Junebug rather than a Priority Requisition the chances of scoring go up.



#10 Kahadras

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 05:00 PM

I'd also say that your Corp stratergy should take into account your opponant. Getting to know the different Runner factions is really useful in predicting the possible ways that your Corp is going to be attacked. Although there is the option to use cards from other factions via influence the core of the deck is probably going to be built around the ability of the Runner and the faction that he or she belongs to.

 

Let's look at a Noise deck as an example. His ability is whenever a virus card is played he forces you to discard the top card of your R&D into your Archives. This should give you a couple of hints about what he's going to do which is...

 

1. Play Viruses.

2. Run your archives to see if you've been forced to discard any agenda.

 

This might not be the focus of what his deck is going to do but the first thing what we'll need to be aware of is the need to put some ICE on our archives. This is a good basic responce to his ability that we can do without needing any more information on his deck. Taking time to come up with a simple early game play against different Runners and different Factions is always a good start.

 

If certain cards are giving you a hard time then think up possible responces to them. Katie Jones is a great card but she's also a resource so you can destroy her if your opponant has a tag in your turn. For this you might want to dip into NBN and spend a bit of your influence on ICE like Data Raven which has the ability to tag the runner on his turn and build up power tokens to tag the runner in your turn (if you pull off a successful trace). NBN also has operations, assets and upgrades which hand out tags as well. On top of this they have cards like Closed accounts which punnish Runners for having tags meaning that you have ways to hurt the Runner even after you've dealt with Katie.   



#11 Gregorius21778

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:04 AM

Thanks for the suggestion, Khadras. I already pretty much love the data-raven myself just for that. Somehow, my opponent NEVER fears any "Trace" routines: through Katie and some other resource cards he usually has what it takes to deal with this.

@all who suggest "playing a Runner once"
My personal stubborness will not allow me that without ONE solid corp victory under my belt. I just want to proof to me that I can pull that off.


Mistakes of mine I noted
- not enoug cards to give me resources (I usually played with 9 to 12 in order to have space for other card)
- the deck was to slim (45 and not one card more)
- rezzed some of my "Upgrades" to early (I read the rules again and saw that I can rezz them before the runner ACCESS the Assets/Agenda.. no need to Rezz ASH before the runner is through all of the ICe)
- SMALLER AGENDAS ARE BETTER

I always frowned upon those "1 point agendas" as they took up to much space". But they are quick to develope...and "false lead" should provide me with a lot of help *s*

Thanks to everyone
 



#12 Kahadras

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:56 AM

While he's preventing the traces he's spending money. If he runs though Data Raven he's going to have to spend credits and a click to clear the tag. This means less money to use on getting through your ICE. If his strong point is his economy then include cards that go after it.

 

Traces and tags are great as you can run traces for free but he needs link in order to avoid paying out to prevent it from working. He's not going to want to end his turn with a tag if he knows you might have a Closed Accounts of Scorched Earth in your hand. Dropping in Tollbooth is another great way to pressure his economy as he needs to spend credits everytime he runs into it. Agenda like NADP Contract cost money to steal putting even more pressure on his economy On top of this you can put in some of your own economy cards which are expencive to trash such as PAD Campaign and EVE Campaign.

 

Knowing what Runner deck your opponant plays might help as well for specific advice.



#13 Smilingknight

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:22 AM

One of the most common mistake is not noticing the unique icon on cards. So the runner can't have more than one Kati Jones out. A small thing but would make for a very rich runner

#14 Wh0isTh3D0ct0r

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:30 AM

One of the most common mistake is not noticing the unique icon on cards. So the runner can't have more than one Kati Jones out. A small thing but would make for a very rich runner

Keep in mind that, while Smilingknight is indeed correct, the rule about unique cards affects the Corp slightly different; the Corp can have more than one copy of a unique card installed at a time, as long as only one of them is rezzed at a time. I had overlooked that rule for quite some time. Page 11 of the rulebook states:

 

"Unique Cards

Some cards have a unique symbol (◆) in front of
their title. There can be only one unique card of the
same title active at a time. If a card with a unique
title becomes active, any other card that shares its
title is immediately trashed. This trashing cannot be
prevented."


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#15 etherial

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:13 AM

@all who suggest "playing a Runner once"
My personal stubborness will not allow me that without ONE solid corp victory under my belt. I just want to proof to me that I can pull that off.
 

Think of it as research.



#16 Wh0isTh3D0ct0r

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:18 AM

 

@all who suggest "playing a Runner once"
My personal stubborness will not allow me that without ONE solid corp victory under my belt. I just want to proof to me that I can pull that off.
 

Think of it as research.

 

Come to the Dark Side. We have Katis.


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#17 etherial

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:27 AM

 

@all who suggest "playing a Runner once"
My personal stubborness will not allow me that without ONE solid corp victory under my belt. I just want to proof to me that I can pull that off.
 

Think of it as research.

 

Oh, and the other reason it's a good idea to play as Runner is that if *you* win 100% of the time as Runner, then you've definitely got something wrong in the way you're playing this game. Have you guys watched any Netrunner podcasts for tips?






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