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Slayer Limb, Heavy Weapons, Multiple Arms, and Two-Weapon Fighting


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#1 Ferrell

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:22 PM

Slayer Limb states that you can use any weapon.

 

But how would this affect the prerequisites for a heavy weapons? Bracing, and using two hands.

 

Would it be possible to wield multiple heavy weapons with enough arms?

Example: 4 arms, two heavy weapons on each side.

 

If you have the arms, and able to wield the heavy weapons simultaneously would you be able to fire both in the same round with two-weapon fighting?

 

More specifically I have a Minion of Chaos concept I'm trying to polish.

Would I be able to attack with 2 heavy weapons in one round with Slayer Limb, Multiple Arms(3), and Two-Weapon Fighting?

 

One arm would be a Slayer Limb(Provided you didn't have to use two hands).

The other two would be holding the other.



#2 Fgdsfg

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:29 AM

I know we've discussed this before on the boards, and I believe that the consensus was that by RAW, it truly does say "any weapon" (or some wording to that same effect). So a Heavy Weapon is definitely viable for Slayer-Limbing.

That being said, again by RAW, there is absolutely nothing saying that rules regarding such things as Bracing would be waived. So you would still have to brace, and don't forget that weight is not waived either, so hauling two (or more) heavy weapons around might be hard.

And while there are no RAW rules regarding it, any GM in their right mind would come up with flavourful reasons as to why there would be problems with the setup you suggest, although not necessarily very hard penalties.
 
One idea that comes to my mind is an Obliterator or Obliterator-like Greater Minion of Chaos, or some kind of corrupted siege/combat-servitor.
 
Your final sentence doesn't make sense to me, although honestly, it might be due to sleep deprivation. If only one arm is a Slayer Limb, how.. wait, nevermind, you are suggesting having one regular Heavy Weapon and one Slayer Limb Heavy Weapon. I was thinking you'd have two Slayer Limb Heavy Weapons. I need to sleep.
 
The only caveat I can think of is potential GM fiat and the fact that you need the GM to actively support the idea in order for you to receive a Minion with Slayer Limb specifically, since the Mutant trait is otherwise a random Gift of the Gods. At that point, though, wouldn't you be better off spending two traits to get two Slayer Limbs, instead of the multiple arms?
 
Looking at traits alone, assuming a Greater Minion of Chaos (7 Traits) and as long as the GM is on board with it, I'd go with something like:

Auto-Stabilised, Slayer Limb (2), Size (5; Hulking), Regeneration (4), Unnatural Toughness (4), Unnatural Strength (4).

I'm envisioning something half-flesh-crafted, a hulking ogryn-like beast with an intelligence somewhere south of Venus, clad in either a skin-tight carapace suit with power-assist or a massive breastplate of writhing steel and spikes, depending on your approach, Both arms flesh-fused to enormous weapons; M41 Multilasers comes to mind.

Then argue with the GM until he accepts two shoulder-mounted MIU Rocket Launchers, too.

Edited by Fgdsfg, 11 July 2014 - 06:36 AM.

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#3 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 05:57 AM

The following apply when fi ghting with two weapons:
• The character may use any melee weapons or ranged
weapons that can be reasonably used in one hand. This
is generally pistol-class ranged weapons (though some
Basic-class weapons may have modifi cations that allow
them to be used with one hand),...
 
 
Heavy weapons are still two handed and nothing in slayer limb says its now a one handed use weapon.


#4 Fgdsfg

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:35 AM

The following apply when fi ghting with two weapons:
• The character may use any melee weapons or ranged
weapons that can be reasonably used in one hand. This
is generally pistol-class ranged weapons (though some
Basic-class weapons may have modifi cations that allow
them to be used with one hand),...
 
 
Heavy weapons are still two handed and nothing in slayer limb says its now a one handed use weapon.

Slayer Limb, however, still says that the affected weapon is fused with a single limb of the player's choice, replacing it from the elbow (or equivalent) down. It also says that any trigger mechanisms are bypassed, that it operates with but a thought, and that it no longer needs to be reloaded.

This implies that whatever weapon it is, it is now usable one-handed and can indeed be "reasonably used in one hand". Want to slap penalties onto that as a GM? That's fine, and may even be entirely appropriate. But Slayer Limb is still very obviously usable with heavy weapons and by all it's wording, any weapon fused takes up a single limb and is fully usable by itself, without additional support from an additional hand for triggers, loading, or similar.

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#5 Chaplain

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 07:42 AM

Read it again. It doesn't mean that when weapon is fused with limb it is now readonably usable. It means you can only infuse a weapon in your limb IF it is reasonably usable with 1 hand, and no heavy weapon falls to this category.
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#6 Ferrell

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

 

Read it again. It doesn't mean that when weapon is fused with limb it is now readonably usable. It means you can only infuse a weapon in your limb IF it is reasonably usable with 1 hand, and no heavy weapon falls to this category.

 

SLAYER  LIMB
One of the character’s limbs fuses with a weapon, either one he  already owns or a new  weapon granted as part of the gift. The limb becomes a twisted mass of metal and flesh, mechanisms and muscles flowing together while blood vessels and ammunition feeds become as one. Any trigger mechanism the character had before is bypassed and it operates with but a  thought.  The character’s metabolism hybridizes with the working of the weapon, and the two become as one, such that it can even derive power or ammunition from his body. The player must choose one weapon carried by his character to become fused with his body. The weapon conjoins with a  single limb of the player’s choice, replacing it from the elbow (or equivalent  joint) down (and  therefore  replacing any hands). The weapon may be of any type, and henceforth never requires reloading or any other type of maintenance.
 
The last sentence in the description gives me the impression that it is reasonably usable.
 
Also there is another post on the forums that supported having a two-handed weapon as a slayer limb:


#7 Fgdsfg

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:50 AM

Read it again. It doesn't mean that when weapon is fused with limb it is now readonably usable. It means you can only infuse a weapon in your limb IF it is reasonably usable with 1 hand, and no heavy weapon falls to this category.

Yeeeaah.. no. That's objectively wrong by RAW. As Ferrell supported above, Slayer Limb can specifically be used with weapons of any type whatsoever.

It is my opinion that this leads to some oddities, in particular I think it's unappealing for melee weapons, and it is my opinion that if ranged weapons can no longer jam, no longer require maintenance, can be wielded with a single arm and no longer requires ammunition, melee weapons should at the very least receive Balanced or something. That's still just opinions, though. RAW is still RAW.

Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#8 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 09:34 AM

The weapon may be of any type, and henceforth never requires reloading or any other type of maintenance.

I see that, but i don't see anything saying you become strong enough to wield a two hander deftly with one hand.  Imagine it was a giant two handed mace, you'd still be bringing your other hand up to the haft to maintain control while swinging the thing. 

 

The linked forum agrees on that point.



#9 Fgdsfg

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:01 AM

The weapon may be of any type, and henceforth 

never requires reloading or any other type of maintenance.
I see that, but i don't see anything saying you become strong enough to wield a two hander deftly with one hand.  Imagine it was a giant two handed mace, you'd still be bringing your other hand up to the haft to maintain control while swinging the thing. 
 
The linked forum agrees on that point.Except that Slayer Limb specifically applies to any weapon. By that same logic of yours, by RAW, a Basic weapon does not become one-handed either, just because it is part of a Slayer Limb.

Slayer Limb specifies that a weapon is fully usable once it is fused. In no way does this mean that you are automatically "strong enough to wield a two-hander deftly with one hand"; but nor is it ever specified that any and all heavy weapons are categorized as such due to weight, in fact, many heavy weapons aren't man-portable at all.

I'd encourage any GM to come up with appropriate penalties due to the long variety of issues that might arise from doing this, but that doesn't make it RAW.

Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#10 Keffisch

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 02:03 PM

http://community.fan...handed-weapons/



#11 Gurkdolf

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 03:50 PM

Seems it's pretty much up to the GM and how he/she wants to handle it.

The way I see it, if any of my players wanted to slayerlimb a heavy weapon, I'd probably say that the weapon gets fused at the trigger, removing the need for ammo and the power like usual, but still requiring a second hand for stability. So I'd say you need 4 hand at least for the dualwielding. I don't have the two weapon rules at hand at the moment, so I cant really comment on that, though.




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