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Confused about Minion Groups


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#1 njharman

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 02:07 PM

Do minion groups reduce in capability as they take casualties. original 3 member minion group with 3 ability and group skill rolls gyy. After losing their buddy, do they exact revenge with only ggy?

 

I couldn't find guidance on minion group size, seems like 3-4. 



#2 KRKappel

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 02:12 PM

Minion group size can literally be unlimited. Rolls are determined by the attribute (which is static) and the number of minions in the group, which caps at 6, I believe. So at most, lets say you have "an entire legion of my best troops" at endor. Thats like 6,000 stormtroopers. They have 2 AGL, and they def reach the cap of 6, so you'd be rolling 2 yellows and 4 greens for every attack they make.

Now, that is obviously not the most efficient way to handle that from a combat tactics POV (though it is awfully efficient in the sense of running a game at large scales that is bogged down with a ton of separate combat checks).

What happens when a minion in the group is killed? Well, if a group goes from, lets say 6 to 5, then yes, their next combat check will lose a green die. If it drops again, it loses another. If a sole minion is alone in the wilds, then they only roll their attribute score, because group skills can't function if a minion is alone. You need 2 or more to count skill ranks, which is to say, no yellows. Just greens from the attribute.

Hope this helps!


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#3 tom2001d

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:37 AM

How is damage handled if they succeed? Is it dealt to only one PC or should it be spread to the group?



#4 Liloki

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:44 AM

Generally played as to one target. Representing that even through there are many shots fired, the target that got hit is the one who actually got shot in the exchange.


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#5 2P51

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:44 AM

They hit one target, one PC.  That's not just one blaster shot though, it represents a fusillade of fire narratively. 


Edited by 2P51, 22 July 2014 - 10:45 AM.

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#6 kaosoe

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:01 AM

Narratively they could be hitting more than one target, mechanically the Wound Threshold of the minion group is the same.

 

A group of 3 minions with 5 Wound Threshold each would be a total of 15 (5 + 5 + 5).

 

Here's the part that is confusing to many people:

When the current wounds exceed the threshold of an individual minion, a minion is destroyed (which minion is dependent on the narrative)

 

So the first minion would be killed at 6/15 (because 6 wounds exceed the 5 wound threshold), and another would be killed at 11/15 and the last at 16/15.

 

Essentially the damage of killing blow of one minion will spill over into the next minion, so narratively there could be more than one target. This is okay, because the job of a minion is to give the PCs a challenge but to die off quickly.


Edited by kaosoe, 22 July 2014 - 11:14 AM.

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#7 tom2001d

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:15 PM

So a minion group would more likely be successful in combat than rolling each NPC individually. For instance, if each stormtrooper listed above rolled, it would 2 green 6 times. This compared to the minion roll that would be 2 yellow and 4 greens rolled one time. The same purple die would be used each time. A better success rate would come out the minion group. Is this correct?



#8 Talkie Toaster

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:56 PM

Probably not. At medium range, the minions have a 40% chance to hit individually, and a 90% chance to hit as a group for ~6 more damage. So basically ~2 hits at ~10 damage vs ~1 hit at ~15 damage. Grouping together only breaks even against targets with 5 soak.

 

Howeeeeever, they'll be more effective individual at short range, as a group at long range/against high defence PCs, the group is better at scoring crits but has a lower peak damage... basically it's too messy to call.

 

Really, minion groups are a bookkeeping tool.



#9 Rookhelm

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:59 PM

So a minion group would more likely be successful in combat than rolling each NPC individually. For instance, if each stormtrooper listed above rolled, it would 2 green 6 times. This compared to the minion roll that would be 2 yellow and 4 greens rolled one time. The same purple die would be used each time. A better success rate would come out the minion group. Is this correct?

 

Yes, more than 1 minion member introduces possibility of Triumph, making a group more effective in the long run.



#10 oatesatm

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:37 AM

The thing with Minions to remember is that, thematically, they gain their strength in their numbers ... to really pose some resemblance of a challenge to the group of PC's.

 

So as those numbers dwindle, so does their abilities.  The example you (and others) gave is correct ... they would downgrade their dice pool as they lose individual members of the Minion group.

 

 

As far as Minion group size, it depends on the story, for example ... how much of a challenge do the PC's need (do you want them to mow thru the Minions or be overwhelmed so that even the PC's see the need to flee).  I have found that a Minion group equal to the number of PC's seems to be the sweet spot for general encounters.  Sometimes they can be broken up to fit a narrative (for example ... if you have 5 PC's and 5 NPC's, could it be a Minion group of 2 guarding the exit while a Minion group of 3 search the premises?)



#11 LethalDose

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:30 PM

Yes, more than 1 minion member introduces possibility of Triumph, making a group more effective in the long run.

 

IMO it's way better gamesmanship for the GM to run the minions as groups (as is intended by the system) just because of how well it streamlines combat, and the possibility of a Triumph result is nice.  
 

That being said, the quoted statement is just wrong.  "In the long run", rolling a bunch of green dice a once for each minion will produce more successful results than rolling a batch of green and yellows once per group.  Unfortunately, this is true almost without exception.  Rolling triumphs is useful, but mathematically, it doesn't even come close to offsetting the advantages of multiple rolls.

 

(Sorry to be nitpicky and contrarian, but stats are my livelihood, and seeing stuff like this is a pet peeve of mine)


Edited by LethalDose, 07 August 2014 - 06:31 PM.

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#12 Balou1917

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:25 PM

Aren't minion groups supposed to be used by the GM as massed troops basically, nameless red shirts basically to be mowed down to show how deadly the conflict is...???  Not to shortchange our Star Trek brethren, but FFG has not mass produced their game yet....whuahahahaha... I'm kidding, I collect old RPG's and would love to see more RPG's produced, but like many other 80's films, some things are beter left alone.  But if they did, I would add everything to my library too.  Damn you FFG, you are worse then a bad lover, you realy keep us coming back for more.....that could be illegal in some states if you were not regulated...


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#13 71gamer

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 12:23 AM

Does anyone have a page# reference for minion combat? I can't find the specifics on "minions fight as a group" in AoR, it's clearly spelled out in edge but I'd like to compare. On p. 410, it says "minions fight as a group", then explains wound thresholds and finally skill ranks, but AoR has omitted the following sentence, from edge: "likewise, minions make one attack per group, not per individual".

I see a lot of people giving advice as if that sentence were not omitted. Thoughts?

#14 N4n0

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:58 AM

As the system is the same across the three "major expansions" (Edge of the Empire, Age of Rebellion and Force and Destiny) the common sense is, unless one book specifically overwrites some rule what is explained in a book works the same for the other two.


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#15 71gamer

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 03:50 PM

They did overwrite it by rewriting the paragraph. AoR is word-for-word same as edge, except for the omission of that sentence

 

 

As the system is the same across the three "major expansions" (Edge of the Empire, Age of Rebellion and Force and Destiny) the common sense is, unless one book specifically overwrites some rule what is explained in a book works the same for the other two.



#16 progressions

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:09 PM

I imagine it's a typo or an editing mistake. Minions are definitely intended to make one attack as a group.


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