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Sieur Piriou and Lunatics.


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#1 Saldre

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:38 PM

Hello!

 

Brand new player here, but my love for this game has already strained my budget!

 

After beating my brother using a combination of Scotophobia (Core) and Sieur-Piriou (Key and the Gate), I started thinking... I really like that card, and was wondering if I could build a deck around it!

 

sieur-piriou-louis-tkatg.jpg

 

Now I had a question regarding the timing of his ability, along with the timing of other characters abilities. 

 

For Example: the Catacombs Docent. 

catacombs-docent-sok.jpg

 

Or Richard: 

 

richard-pike-sok.jpg

 

 

The Question: how do these cards interact with each other? Does Richard Pike going crazy trough the Huntsman protect the Catacomb Docent, who can, after he's finished investigating the story go Insane? Can the Docent go crazy by himself in response to Richard Pike going insane? How long in a turn does the Qualifier "After" stick around? Same Phase? Immediately following? 

 

The lamest answer, of course, and I suspect its going to be the case, that the Good Sieur Piriou simply drives everyone insane simultaneously- as such, people will only benefit from Pike's ability if they are in a different story than the huntsman. In such circumstances, can they be driven insane in response to his going crazy BEFORE his force response kicks in? 

 

How does it all work!? 

 

If you guys can think of other cards that interact with Insanity (like Charles Dexter Ward, The Old man in the Woods) but would do so differently, how do they do it?  

 

Thanks!!! 



#2 jasonconlon

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 06:32 AM

It would go like this:
i) Your opponent commits attackers.
ii) You commit defenders, including Sieur Piriou Louis (SPL).
iii) Having now committed SPL, you can trigger his Response - and must do so now, before the next Action is played or the next framework action occurs of resolving stories, or else the opportunity to do so is lost.
iv) Upon triggering SPL's Response, all other characters at the same story that can go insane do go insane, then he receives a success token (and if this is his third success token then, being Fated 3, SPL would then return to the bottom of your deck).
v) Forced Responses happen when they say they will, and take precedence over any Responses that are equally applicable (noting that during story resolution you cannot trigger Responses or subsequently Actions until all stories have resolved, though Forced Responses still occur), so if Richard Pike was sent insane by SPL then his ability would now trigger, giving Willpower and Toughness to any other Miskatonic characters (yours and your opponents) that weren't also sent insane by SPL at the same time as Richard.
Note that insane characters lose their faction (i.e. have no faction) and their text box cannot be modified, so Richard Pike's effect - in addition to coming too late to save any others from SPL - cannot be applied to formerly-Miskatonic characters that have since gone insane. (In other words, Richard Pike can't actually give anyone Willpower in time for it to be useful, when facing SPL.)
vi) After all stories have resolved there is now an opportunity to trigger Responses to things that occurred during story resolution. With SPL's Response resolved, Richard Pike going insane as a result and his Forced Response also dealt with, now Catacombs Docent could trigger his Response - but only* if: a) he isn't currently insane as a result of SPL; and b) he hasn't gained Willpower from Richard Pike (or a Terror icon from some other source) that would prevent him from going insane as a cost to use his ability - in which case you could now drive Catacombs Docent insane to place a success token at a story with three or fewer success tokens on your side.
vii) Here, other Responses could be triggered, if any; followed by Actions, if any; then the turn would end.

* Note: If Catacombs Docent was attacking a story defended by SPL, the only way I can think of to be able to use his ability (regardless of whether Richard Pike was also around) would be with Mu. Catacombs Docent would be driven insane by SPL, all stories would resolve, then during the window for Responses you could trigger Mu to restore Catacombs Docent, and then Catacombs Docent could next trigger his own Response during the same Responses window to having been driven insane. (Cards with Action abilities like Arkham Asylum would not work, because the Action window occurs after the story Responses window has closed, and Catacombs Docent would not be restored in time.)

To better understand why things happen in this order, I highly recommend reading HilariousPete's articles:
- Timing in Call of Cthulhu LCG. Part 1 – Basic Introduction
- Timing in Call of Cthulhu LCG. Part 2 – Triggered effects
in conjunction with the Detailed Turn Sequence diagram in the Core rules and the Timing Structure section in the FAQ.

Referencing The Action Window in Detail part of the FAQ, what we have here is:
1) Action/Response is initiated - SPL triggers his Response
2) Disrupts - none in this example
3) Action/Response is executed - all other characters at SPL's story that can go insane do go insane
4) Passive abilities are initiated - none in this example
5) Forced Responses - Richard Pike triggers his Forced Response, which goes through the same steps 1) to 4)
6) Responses (after all stories resolve if during the Story Phase) - Catacombs Docent triggers his Response, which goes through the same steps 1) to 4)

Edited by jasonconlon, 27 October 2014 - 12:10 AM.

  • jhaelen and Danigral like this

#3 davogotland

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 02:08 PM

but... can the docent really respond here? let's say i committed richard and spl to the same story and left the docent out. then Richard goes insane and the docent gains willpower and toughness +1. if i now want to use the docent's response nothing happens, right? it says the docent must be driven insane for me to put a success token, and since he now has willpower, that can't happen. or can the effect still resolve even if the docent doesn't end up being insane?

Edited by davogotland, 17 October 2014 - 02:09 PM.


#4 jhaelen

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 01:22 AM

The way it's written, driving the Docent insane is a cost that must be paid to trigger the effect. Since he gained Willpower, you cannot pay the cost, so you cannot trigger it.



#5 jasonconlon

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 12:11 AM

Good pickup, davogotland. I've gone back and edited my previous response to correct this (and to correct some other stuff about timing specifically during story resolution - i.e. Responses and subsequent Actions can't be triggered until after all stories are resolved).




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