Well, maybe bye, I don't what are you try to probe, it's an intencional mistake, by this some friends reconaisseme, greettings
X-Wing Mini Alternates/Customs
Posted 13 July 2014 - 10:04 PM
"That the reward for you, don´t be so high".
Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:29 AM
I'd forgotten how crap the Star Wars micro machines were, but they were the only X-Wing miniatures you could have as a kid so I loved them
I know what you mean. When I had nothing to compare to, they were AWESOME. But now, when I put them side by side with the FFG models, even if they're even remotely around the same size, I can't help but notice how they're bent a little here, warped a little there, overly thick in one spot, etc. it's REALLY noticeable on my various TIE fighters, with their warped panels.
I still get use out of the few Action Fleet toys I have, though. Some of them are so grossly out of scale that it's embarrassing to put them on the table, but others are nice touches, even though "Edge of Empire really IS NOT a miniatures game. For example, I've got that Millennium Falcon toy that pops open with a "play set" inside; I've never gotten around to trying to "furnish" the inside, but it serves as a nice placeholder for putting minis as a visual reminder for "Who's still on the ship," vs. who decided to go outside at the space station, or who's in a fighter, etc. (Just glance at the table and see where your mini is located, and issue a correction if the GM has it wrong. )
I was GMing Edge of the Empire just before getting into X-Wing. We had trouble with its more abstract space combat and I thought about using the X-wing rules instead but the diferances in the two systems didn't seem like they would mesh, so I never tried it. What's your aproach, do you alter the talents and skills from eote or change the ship stats from x-wing? Say a PC has training in pilot(space), how does thier ability score/skill ranks translate?
Since I'm doing this for RPG purposes, there's an awful lot of "winging it" going on, and I need to make some updates to my "cheat sheet" since the last game. For each ship being used by the players, I've been pasting together quick-ref sheets that have the Edge of Empire stats, and then a bogus (Photoshop patched) ship card for the X-Wing stats, along with paste-in equipment cards that seem appropriate (for ion cannons, proton torpedoes, etc.). In some cases, I don't happen to have both Edge of Empire *AND* X-Wing stats for a given ship, so I have to make something up. I don't yet have a smooth "conversion" process, so it mostly consists of my conjecture about stuff like, "Well, this ship is supposed to be a lowly mass-produced craft, so it's probably close to a Headhunter in stats,
I've seen folks posting stats for various ships, but quite often, when I examine the stats, they tend to be suspiciously powerful (as in, "Why would anyone ever want a mere X-Wing, when they could have THIS?!"). So for now I'm just eyeballing it and hoping the players don't think too much about WHERE I got these stats.
For game play ... it's still a work in progress, and I think my own balance is a bit broken and in need of further work. But with that in mind, here's where I am at the moment.
>>> Determine Piloting score by adding up the character's dice in Piloting (Space). Each green die = 1 point; each yellow die = 2 points. This puts the typical TIE fighter pilot (3 Agility + 1 rank Piloting) at a Piloting score of "4." This is used for purposes of determining order in which movements are made.
>>> Every PC who is a member of the crew of a ship (e.g., multiple PCs acting as gunners, etc.) acts at the same time as the ship's pilot. (Yes, this means a ship with awesome gunners and a lousy pilot will be severely disadvantaged in terms of action order, but I can live with that. And what player group will tolerate having a lousy pilot at the helm for very long? )
>>> We go through rounds of X-Wing Miniatures combat like usual -- but if there is any non-starfighter-combat activity that's taking place at the same time (e.g., a fight taking place ON one of the ships right in the middle of the battle, or the "talkie" guy in the group is trying to negotiate in the middle of the shooting), then any die-rolling exercises related to that are handled at the "bottom" of each round.
>>> For the various Talents, I've been figuring out their impact on the game on an "as it comes up" basis. Being able to reroll a Piloting check isn't of much use if Piloting is just a fixed value determining your position in the action order each round ... but I can entertain the idea that it could be used to reroll anything involving dice that could reflect upon actual piloting (e.g., reroll the damage dice when you pass "through" an asteroid in hopes that it'll come up with no hits ... or reroll evasion dice in hopes of negating an attack). Once I make a house-ruling on that, I write it down for future reference, but I haven't exhaustively gone through ALL the Talents to see how they might apply.
>>> Having multiple players on, say, a YT-1300 to man the turrets, etc., means the ship can get in more attacks. A YT-1300 has two turrets, so if you've got one pilot and one gunner, the pilot could make an attack in his forward arc, AND the gunner gets to make one attack that can go outside the forward arc (because it's a turret). If you've got TWO gunners, then it can make two attacks, each one ignoring the forward firing arc (but it doesn't magically add a THIRD attack, because in-game there are still only two turrets.)
>>> I calculate a "score" for certain other skills that might impact game play, mostly in the form of allowing rerolls on dice. My current formula is similar to that for Piloting: Add up your dice (green = 1, yellow = 2), but then SUBTRACT TWO. If, SOMEHOW, after that, you end up with zero or a NEGATIVE score, you're just too incompetent at that skill to contribute, or there's some sort of penalty.
(Note: I don't apply this to the Piloting score because it would be kind of moot anyway, since there it's just used to determine turn order.)
>>> Gunnery: You get to reroll a number of attack dice equal to your "gunnery score." You must take the new result, whether better or worse. If you have a negative Gunnery skill, you get NO rerolls, and in fact you must pull out one attack die per negative score. (Note: I treat the typical space pirate as having a "Gunnery Score" of zero. This tends to mostly benefit the players and "major NPCs.") If "Lock On" is an option, a gunner can "lock on" separately from the pilot.
>>> Mechanics: For this, I listed a number of abilities based on the various Astromech cards, and then ranked them by how "powerful" I thought they were (e.g., the ones that let you flip a Critical over to be a regular damage, or let you restore a shield point if the pilot takes a green action). Each round, anyone who is acting as a Mechanic (i.e., not doing anything else!) can take a repair action, choosing from the list, as long as he meets the minimum Mechanics score for each option.
>>> Computers: For this, I think I went overboard: You calculate your Computers score, and then you can engage in "electronic countermeasures" or providing "targeting support" over the course of the round (rather than waiting until your "turn") ... which basically means that you get a limited number of dice you can reroll on any attack or defense die that round, for friends or foes who happen to be within 3 range. So if you've got 4 yellow in Computers (4 * 2 -2 = 6) then over the course of each round, you'd get to reroll up to 6 attack or defense dice, friend or foe, hoping each time that the new roll is better than the old.
The first time I did this, however, there was no range limitation. Having a Slicer in the group meant that he was probably the most versatile and engaged character in the entire conflict, since he could mete out help or hindrance as desired, over the course of the round. (And being able to pick and choose which dice to reroll on both sides of an exchange is a pretty big deal.) Next time, I'm going with the range limitation, at the very least.
Since I've got a Slicer in the group, I pretty much have to make sure he CAN do something, and the fact he's specialized means that he's got lots of dice in it -- while others in the group (those acting as gunners, pilots, etc.) tend to be more diversified in their skill sets (since they need to be competent not only at space combat, but when the action takes place on land as well), so I'm not sure on where to properly balance things.
Anyway, that's just an abstract overview, and I still need to do some edits to reflect observations from our last game. We don't go through THAT much starfighter combat in our campaign (as half the time the group keeps AVOIDING combat situations through trickery, fast-talking, etc., and they're smugglers, not soldiers), so it takes me a while to go through iterations of "playtesting" this properly. Hence, it's going to be a while before I there's even a hope that I'll have anything worthwhile to post over on the Edge of Empire forums.
- Radarman5 likes this
Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:40 AM
Randomly-scaled Micro Machines and Titanium toys only go so far, so I'm also trying to build my own craft using bits of plasticard (and similar materials), putty, foam-core, and whatever else fits the bill. I have a little Micro Machines model of the Hound's Tooth -- the ship of Bossk the Trandoshan Bounty Hunter -- and thought it looked like a nice, clunky freighter that could be useful for some scenarios ... but the one I have is horribly out of scale. It is boxy enough that I wondered if I could manage to make one out of plasticard and such.
I checked around for various visual refs of the ship (a YV-666 Corellian Light Freighter, according to Wookieepedia), and some measurements. For a while, I was perplexed about just how the thing flies, as models I'd seen made it look as if it had two thrusters sticking UP on the back end (perpendicular to its presumed movement) ... but fortunately the ship shows up in an episode of "Clone Wars" ("Bounty" - season 4, episode 20), and I caught a glimpse of the back end: There are horizontal rectangular thruster "nacelles" on the upper back side of the main "cab" body.
I used a couple of pieces of foam-core illustration board and some scrap plastic as spacers in the main body. For the back end, I'm using some impressions of the back/bottom of the Slave I as a starting point for "greebles" on the tail. I'm planning on using putty to round the corners where appropriate, then sand down for smooth transitions. I'm really not experienced at this sort of thing, so I'm just sort of making it up as I go.
More of a problem would be my work on a Gozanti Cruiser:
Wookieepedia stats put it at about 42m. I dug up all the views I could, including pictures from the new Rebels TV series (with the TIE fighters underneath), as my player group found stats for this in the new Age of Rebellion book and decided they want to save up to buy one as their big goal, and recruit some NPCs to fill out the rest of the crew (since it needs something like 10-12 or so people, being a pretty big ship).
Or so you'd think from the book stats. 42m is not much longer than the Millennium Falcon. I arranged the pictures in Photoshop, scaling to 1:270 for the main views from right, left, top, bottom, front, back ... and that's where it was pretty obvious that something was off.
There's no way those TIEs are going to fit so snugly under the "wings" like that if this is only 42m long. It looked especially silly when I shrank down a picture of Han Solo to 1:270 scale and compared it to the ship. To scale, Han's head would be bumping against the ceiling of that top deck, and he'd have to stoop over to look out that narrow view-slit (which is only around 20-25cm high, if the whole thing is 42m long). And those little side-areas where there are viewports? There's no way someone is fitting into those cubbyholes comfortably. In any case, I think it's fair to say that the players are *expecting* something midway between a YT-1300 and a Corellian Corvette. Maybe that's not quite right, but I don't think this will cut it.
So, once again, Wookieepedia stats are questionable. Argh! I shouldn't worry that much, and I don't want to be a "slave to scale" (I know the CR90 and Rebel Transport are a different scale), but it just LOOKS WRONG. Alas, I don't have any nice, clean views of the ship WITH THE TIE FIGHTERS straight on from the side, so I'll have to take some guesses on what would be an appropriate size to scale relative to the TIEs. (I'm aiming for "looks good on the table.")
- Punning Pundit likes this
Posted 16 July 2014 - 11:37 AM
Once Upon a Midnight Dreary....
Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:27 AM
Addendum to my previous notes about the Gozanti Cruiser, once I tracked down a ruler:
* FFG's 1:270 scale TIE fighter model is about 1.25" long (measured from front to back of the wing panels at the middle, widest point).
* If I'm to take the Wookieepedia length of 42m for the Gozanti Cruiser, the length of the 1:270 model would be about 6.124" on the table.
* However, in order to get the TIE fighters to fit underneath the Gozanti Cruiser's "wing" in proportion to the "Rebels TV" clip, the TIE models would need to measure somewhere between 0.5" to 0.75" (closer to 0.75").
* Based on that dubious visual "measurement," I'm estimating that the model should actually be 10.21" long in order to scale with the TIE models. Converted back into meters, that would suggest that the canon length of a Gozanti Cruiser should be in the NEIGHBORHOOD of 70m.
Disclaimer: Please attach a pretty hefty margin of error onto that "70m" measurement. I've had some trouble trying to line up the details on that Rebels TV picture (plus another that shows it from below) with what "landmarks" I could find on the Gozanti's hull. All I'm certain about at this point is that the 42m measurement is a joke. I hope FFG will make an official Gozanti Cruiser at some point, and that they'll make it large enough not to be laughable next to the TIE fighters. But even if they do, I figure that will have to be a LONG way out, so in the meantime for my campaign I'm moving ahead with a scratch-build using my best guess.
Also, I don't have pictures yet, but I got a few Titanium models off Ebay as part of a grab-bag deal. These things measure /about/ 3 inches long in their largest dimension, so that means that if there's a Star Wars vehicle that's somewhere around 20.57m in its largest dimension, the Titanium model just MIGHT be horseshoes-and-handgrenades close to 1:270 scale. It's a bit of a gamble, though.
* ARC-170: Titanium toy is 4" wide, 2.5" long. (So much for my "3 inches" rule.) At 1:270 scale, an ideal model SHOULD be 3.30" wide ... but boy the ARC-170 toy looks about right! I'm going to paint it up and use it. The model is of middling quality, with very sparse detail. The "opening cockpit" is a joke -- a single piece that opens the entire canopy area (pilot, co-pilot, and back gunner, all at once, with the astromech riding the canopy -- I sincerely doubt it's meant to open that way in-universe) and a completely bare area underneath ... but I'll see if the model can benefit from some painting.
I'm divided on whether to paint it up in original Republic regalia, or to paint it up as an early-Empire-era ship. It's the closest to this scale I've found so far. (My scenario next weekend involves the PCs traveling to a hazardous nebula to investigate the site of an ambush of an early-Empire-era convoy as part of a REALLY cold-case investigation ... so rather than having a bunch of wrecked TIEs, I figured I might have some Clone-Wars-era craft with Imperial regalia dotting the site of the "inevitable" clash with space pirates.)
* IG-2000: Titanium toy is 2.625" long. Canon length is 20m; at 1:270 scale, an ideal model would be 2.92" long. So, it's a bit short, but still pretty close. The fluff text is ridiculous, however. Seriously, this is a *starfighter* that had "living quarters" removed, that has an engine from a Nebulon-B frigate installed, and still has room for 8 prisoners plus the pilot? Riiiiiight. The fluff text on the package gives me further concern, as it's talking up this ship like it's something really huge, yet that engine allows it to be as fast as the Slave I (never mind that, given the measurements printed on the boxes, these ships should be about the SAME SIZE, so we shouldn't be so surprised). I'm thinking there's another goof-up on scale, but for my campaign purposes I'm just going to use the toy (and argue that the only way it holds 6 prisoners is by sticking them in "suspension tubes" or whatnot).
It also took some effort to track down references to find out WHICH END is the front, since the cockpit doesn't really look identifiably like a cockpit. Most of the pictures show the back end of the craft facing the viewer, possibly giving the impression that end is the front.
As for the Titanium model, the detail is nice enough, but I am annoyed that the "© LFL" copyright notice is ON THE TOP OF THE SHIP, and it's on the die-cast portion and in a recessed area, so filing it out is going to be a hassle. Still, I had to get this, so between it, the FFG Slave I, and my "Hound's Tooth," I should be well on my way to having a whole roster of bounty hunter ships.
* Slave I: Titanium toy is pretty sad-looking compared to FFG's model, but in the general neighborhood of size. I only got this because it was part of the grab bag with the ARC-170 and IG-2000 that I wanted. The Titanium model is about 3" long/high at its longest dimension, compared to 3.25" long/high for the FFG model. Going at 1:270 scale off the canon measurement of 21.5m, the ship "should" be about 3.14" long ... which puts it right between those two measurements.
In any case, the Titanium model is noticeably smaller than the official FFG model (and has much less detail), and I ended up with the "bare metal" or "silver" version. Given that I already have FFG's model (which looks nicer anyway), probably the only reason I'll crack this out of the package is if I decide to convert it to "space junk," or if my players for some reason acquire a Firespray in the course of the campaign and decide to repaint it. ("Hey guys, I have a great idea: How about you CHROME it? That'll make it REALLY inconspicuous!")
Also, I've found that the Jedi Starfighter and Jedi Interceptor from the Star Wars Starship Battles miniatures are pretty close to 1:270 scale (the ETA-2 Actis Interceptor errs on the large side -- especially noticeable if you put it next to the Jedi Starfighter -- but it passes the "eyeball test" next to the FFG ships on its own).
Edited by Jordan Peacock, 17 July 2014 - 07:36 AM.
Posted 19 July 2014 - 07:52 PM
Work in progress on customized X-Wing Miniatures starships: Corellian YV-series light freighter (a la Bossk's modified YV-666 freighter) -- The main fuselage and wing structures are shaping up, as I've been building up the basic shapes and "greebles" with pieces of plastic paneling, and bits of putty filler.
YV-666 - Fuselage WIP - Upside-Down
I've been using Instant Mold temporary push-molds to lift details from FFG's Slave I model -- curved hull surfaces for the ship's tail end and the undersides of the S-Foils, and miscellaneous greebles for the rear assembly and main boosters. In my version, I've lowered the thrusters a little in order to look closer to being in line with the center of mass -- and in order to allow room for a YT-1300-style docking ring at the top rear of the main "cab." If this deviates from the standard YV-series style, I feel justified in that the fluff claims the YV series is "easily customizable" just like the YT series -- and the YT series features some pretty radical alterations by comparison.
YV-666 Fuselage WIP (right-side up)
I also got a Titanium ARC-170 as part of an Ebay lot as part of a silly scheme to get some more X-Wing Minis-worthy ships. My gambit didn't pay off quite as well as I had originally hoped, but it should pass for RPG purposes.
The ARC-170 has a canon wingspan of 22.6 meters. Most of the Titanium ships are about 3" in their longest/widest dimension ... and at 1:270 scale, that's in the ballpark for being around 20m. Well, I got my ARC-170, and it's actually 4" wide, shooting that scheme down. It's too big by a third or so, but it's the closest I've found, so I used some putty underneath to provide a socket for an FFG base peg, and repainted the thing in Imperial colors (as per a Hasbro toy version of the ARC-170). I figure it'll do nicely as a relic of the early Empire for a scenario. (I suppose I don't necessarily need a custom X-Wing card for it, because something that old probably isn't spaceworthy anyway....)
Titanium IG-2000 / Aggressor Assault Fighter
The other is IG-2000 -- AKA the Aggressor starfighter. Canon fluff (some of it conveniently printed on the package) also puts it around 20m (or, 20m exactly), and this particular model actually was 3" long, so it's about as close to 1:270 scale as I could hope. Fluff claims that this ship holds 8 people, plus a pilot, and also has a secure hold. And it's only 20m long? Yipes. One challenge was figuring out which end was the front end; there's no immediately obvious cockpit -- most of the art of this ship is from (what I found to be) the back side. I ended up having to use some putty and did a bit of repainting on the single engine exhaust, since there was a seam going right through it (which just didn't look right; glowing energy/flame shouldn't be broken in half ). I hate that the copyright ( © LFL ) notice is printed ON THE TOP of the ship, on what I suppose is meant to be the cockpit canopy. That area is painted black, so it's not immediately obvious, but still a dumb design move. It's die-cast metal, so I can't just shave it off with a hobby knife, and I am leery of taking a Dremel to it.
I've found custom IG-2000 stats, and while it might make for an interesting encounter (the PCs went out of their way to mess with an IG-series assassin droid, and thus at some point there ought to be some consequences), I'm concerned they might be a bit munchkin-ish. I admit that I'm enough of a novice at this game not to have any strong notion of it, but when I see lots of high numbers across the board, I get suspicious. Again, I'm using these ships to play out combat for a Star Wars "Edge of Empire / Age of Rebellion" campaign, so I'm not concerned with "point values" per se, let alone having a balanced force on each side for every encounter -- but I don't want silly situations where some oddball ship that was some hobbyist's pet favorite becomes THE BEST SHIP that puts X-Wings to shame, say. I'll likely just make up something on my own, based off of an already-established set of ship stats.
But craft-wise, hey, it looks kind of cool now that I know which end is the front end.
Edited by Jordan Peacock, 19 July 2014 - 07:54 PM.
- Punning Pundit likes this
Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:36 PM
- Jordan Peacock likes this
2 A-Wings, 2 B-Wing, 4 X-Wings, 1Y-Wing, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300, 1 CR-90, 1 GR-75
Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:41 AM
I like the work you've done here. I too am a fan of instant mold. I've used it to copy custom torsos & heads for 40k figures as well as lift icons for replication & application to other models. You've far far surpassed me in its use though I must say. When I want anything 2 part in detail I usually just use silicone and resin to make molds & casts lol.
As for the Z-95s the old battle of hoth snap together model kits have several decent X-Wings with closed S-foils that once the astromech is removed, make excellent Z-95s & are almost perfect fit with X-Wing minis, being just slightly longer.
I lol'ed over the post talking about making psuedo-40k game rules for ActionFleet. My buddies & I did that same, only we used Epic 40k rules & between all of us we had almost every one of the action fleet sets. It was quite amusing to see Vader force choking a wampa as speeder bikes zipped by taking potshots at a modified version of Luke's landspeeder with an E-Web mounted in the passenger seat.
Please keep up the intresting work. As a lurker I looked at your thread several times & wished I'd had a GM like you back when I was RPing.
Posted 21 July 2014 - 07:04 AM
Work in progress on the YV-666 freighter:
I rigged up the wings so that they can rotate upward, as I happened to have in my "bitz box" a soft plastic cylinder from a construction set, and a wooden dowel with interior/exterior diameters that matched up neatly. This, however, was a largely pointless innovation (it seemed like a good idea at the time) since the model's made to be displayed as if in flight, and I have yet to make any landing gear.
The background piece, by the way, is another project I'm working on with my co-conspirator Chris Stadler. He has just about every Hirst Arts mold I can think of, and is far more meticulous than I am when it comes to casting. We've done some 3D Super Dungeon Explore boards in the past, and he's helped me make some modular "space station corridor" scenery for Star Wars miniatures battles, but the current project is to make up some Robo Rally boards -- this first one based upon one of the 2D boards included with the game. But I digress.
Later, I finally gave the thing a base coat, used some Tacky Glue to affix the wings a little more firmly in place (though it's an easy enough fix if I decide I want to make them mobile again later), then did some rough dry-brushing and a token bit of spot color. I wanted to get this thing "done" over the weekend so it's table-ready for next weekend's game, since I'm going to be putting in a lot of overtime this week, hence I can't count on having time to deal with this further.
Afterward, I'll likely go back with the Dremel and more putty to try to smooth the corners and seams, as the drybrushing really brings out every last imperfection -- and I still need to add those two "smokestacks" (or whatever they are) to the rear greeble area.
Thrown in for good measure, I have a homemade plastic base for the IG-2000/Aggressor I made by tracing an X-Wing Miniatures base onto some scrap plastic. My idea is to affix the display base that came for the model to my makeshift base, rather than tying up a proper X-Wing Minis base. I'll just have to make a custom info card (and I'm not quite sure how to replace it on the fly) that puts the critical information on both sides rather than the front or back edges. I don't have any way of holding up the number/pilot ID tokens, but I don't expect to have more than one of these on the table at a time anyway.
@ Radarman5: Thanks! I will be sure to check those out. I've seen some treatments of the Hound's Tooth that used a single large base, but my own ship ended up a bit too big to plausibly fit on just one of those. I'm going with two bases for now -- though that has me wondering whether that means I need to treat it as a Huge Ship, with energy and fore/aft differentiation and all that. Ack. I manage to complicate things without even trying.
@RedStarrise: Yeah, Instant Mold really doesn't compare to what can be done when making PROPER molds. The main advantage in it is that it allows me to be a whole lot more IMPULSIVE with the molding. Like, I'm putting together this model, and IF ONLY I had another copy of this exhaust-port surface element that I could glue onto the surface ... then, voila! Just get out the Instant Mold, get a surface impression, get out the putty, and I can make a quick facsimile. If I wanted to make anything with serious detail and quality (and especially if I wanted multiple copies of same), then taking the time and effort to make a more permanent mold would certainly be more appropriate.
Regarding that Hoth battle set -- I find myself regretting I never picked up that "Rebel Base" or the "Hoth Battle" set when I had the chance. At the time, I was more focused on everything being 25mm scale (AKA 1:72 or 1:64 or thereabouts) because that's the scale I was using for my minis for skirmishes. I just didn't have the foresight to realize that one day, a really awesome starfighter miniatures game would come out that would use 1:270 scale models, and some of those tiny ships and scenery pieces would come in handy.