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How good are Hired Guns?


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#21 Slave0

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 04:50 AM

I sense much powergaming in this thread. ;)


Serious response:
I personally don't like the concept of creating a char that can deal to most damage or take the most punishment inside a rule-system. There is not much of charakter concept in this most of the time.


Get your backstory first and then you should have a decent idea if even your wookie can use one extra point in maybe presence or cunning to support your character concept.


Unless you play some gladiator slave or ultra badass spec-ops operative I find charakter concepts that mainly focus on the combat aspects to be shallow. Most of the times the above mentioned concepts are very shallow even when some story fluff is added to the charakter.

Just let go of the mindset that you need to master your class or maxout your skills, I think it doesn't fit to most characters encoutered in starwars.

Edited by Slave0, 01 July 2014 - 04:51 AM.

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#22 Plan b

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 05:37 AM

Unless you play some gladiator slave or ultra badass spec-ops operative I find charakter concepts that mainly focus on the combat aspects to be shallow. Most of the times the above mentioned concepts are very shallow even when some story fluff is added to the charakter.

 

 

 

I assume unless is a typo, as those are probably "THE" most boring, clichéd, combat characters imaginable.

 

The question was asked, its was discussed, and an answer proposed.

 

If you don't like it, get off your high horse and start a "fluff" and "charakter" thread, or contribute something other than "combat bad" poo-pooing.

 

 

Do be aware that the Klatooinian build suggested in the post above has Willpower 1 (important for Discipkine and Vigilance, possibly Coercion) and will have a low starting Strain Threshold too.

 

 

11 strain isn't to bad, but yeah willpower 1, is the trade for 2 4s



#23 HappyDaze

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:14 AM

I sense much powergaming in this thread. ;)


Serious response:
I personally don't like the concept of creating a char that can deal to most damage or take the most punishment inside a rule-system. There is not much of charakter concept in this most of the time.


Get your backstory first and then you should have a decent idea if even your wookie can use one extra point in maybe presence or cunning to support your character concept.


Unless you play some gladiator slave or ultra badass spec-ops operative I find charakter concepts that mainly focus on the combat aspects to be shallow. Most of the times the above mentioned concepts are very shallow even when some story fluff is added to the charakter.

Just let go of the mindset that you need to master your class or maxout your skills, I think it doesn't fit to most characters encoutered in starwars.

I find it interesting that you use both charakter (multiple times) and character in the same post. Made me look up the k spelling to see if it was some videogame slang.


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#24 Slave0

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:33 AM

 

If you don't like it, get off your high horse and start a "fluff" and "charakter" thread, or contribute something other than "combat bad" poo-pooing.

 

hey, dude just calm down a bit.

 

As I stated the mentioned concepts are indeed the most cliché and boring characters for combat focused classes.

But those are the ones players usually come up with, even if they try to cover itwith a shallow story.

 

I'ma lso not aguing to not go for combat-heavy characters. I'm just not a fan of combat characters that are not played like combat characters. It is just not very often that a player manages to play his presence 1, brawn 5 punching machine like it is meant to be. And even better when they come up with backstories that portrait those characters as still kind of charming.

 

My point is: If you have an interesting character concept it will probably justify that you not max out your talent-tree & stats to deal maximum damage. You will nonetheless be the hard-hitter of the party, but will also give other players room in engagements to show theier combat skills.

A absolute combat optimzed character can, if played in a party that is not that optimized for engagements, take away much fun for other characters in engagements.


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#25 awayputurwpn

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

 

If you don't like it, get off your high horse and start a "fluff" and "charakter" thread, or contribute something other than "combat bad" poo-pooing.

 
hey, dude just calm down a bit.

 

Yeah that got ugly quick! When discussing differing preferences, escalation can be expected. I recommend a less confrontational approach.
 

As I stated the concepts are indeed the most cliché and boring characters for combat focused classes.
But those are the ones players usually come up with, even if they try to cover itwith a shallow story.

 
One man's cliché is another man's awesome idea. Especially when the first man is a grognard and the other is a newbie. As a GM, one should of course encourage people towards interesting character concepts, but in RPGs character development trumps background. Get a short history together, work out some details for motivations and obligations, and start roleplaying. And for pity's sake, one shouldn't roll one's eyes at a character one thinks is boring. Just let other players get along with their stuff, and roll with it.

 

I'ma lso not aguing to not go for combat-heavy characters. I'm just not a fan of combat characters that are not played like combat characters. It is just not very often that a player manages to play his presence 1, brawn 5 punching machine like it is meant to be. And even better when they come up with backstories that portrait those characters as still kind of charming.

This kind of dissonance is something that a GM should come down on. "I'm sorry, but if you want your Wookiee to be a total ladies'-being, you're gonna have to increase your Presence, or wait until your Charm skill is higher. Otherwise he's going to think he's in good with the ladies when, in reality, he is not."
 

My point is: If you have an interesting character concept it will probably justify that you not max out your talent-tree & stats to deal maximum damage. You will nonetheless be the hard-hitter of the party, but will also give other players room in engagements to show theier combat skills.
A absolute combat optimzed character can, if played in a party that is not that optimized for engagements, take away much fun for other characters in engagements.


The last statement is only true if the encounters are so poorly crafted and imagined that they can only be overcome by "who deals the most damage with a personal weapon."  

 

If a combat-optimized character is having fun and no one else is, it is usually no one's fault but the GM. Unless of course you have a table full of people that hate RPGs (but then, that's a different problem altogether).

 

Let players play the kind of character they want! And make encounters that are fun for them! Surely that's not a novel concept?

 

My suggestion for those designing encounters is to print this out http://www.d20radio....nt/The List.pdf and stick it on your notebook/computer monitor/wall/wherever you are when you design encounters. Give the scholars and slicers something to do while your shooters and sluggers are mixing it up ol'-fashioned-style. 

 


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#26 Dbuntu

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 06:27 AM

This kind of dissonance is something that a GM should come down on. "I'm sorry, but if you want your Wookiee to be a total ladies'-being, you're gonna have to increase your Presence, or wait until your Charm skill is higher. Otherwise he's going to think he's in good with the ladies when, in reality, he is not."

 

 

Next character concept: A comically inept lady killer. Grossk is trying all his best pickup lines, but all the Twi'lek dancing girls see is a hulking Trandoshan screaming Dosh at them. This is going to be awesome!


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#27 Venthrac

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 07:26 AM

I've been playing a Hired Gun in my and Ineti's campaign, and it's a pretty lethal career in my opinion. I built him as a short-range damage dealer type and he can really dish out some punishment.

 

If it's combat effectiveness you want, I think it's a great choice.



#28 HappyDaze

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:22 AM

Remember all the powerful talents I was boasting about in the Mercenary Soldier? Well, the AoR book gives us the Sharpshooter specialization of Soldier. It gives us True Aim 2 and Deadly Accuracy (twice if you like) and all of that is still just in the first three rows. It lacks the leadership of the Mercenary Soldier, but for pure firepower it's pretty awesome.


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#29 Maelora

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 03:16 AM

Hired Guns are extremely focused.  They are the 'fighter' class and they are very good in combat.

 

If you're playing a mostly combat game, they will probably feel overpowered. They are very easy to min/max.

 

But ideally, EoE games are intended to be more than just fighting and should have opportunities for other classes to shine.

 

And I never like to hear the word 'build' outside the construction industry.  

 

More than most, FFG's SW games are meant to be narrative.


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#30 Plan b

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:15 AM

Remember all the powerful talents I was boasting about in the Mercenary Soldier? Well, the AoR book gives us the Sharpshooter specialization of Soldier. It gives us True Aim 2 and Deadly Accuracy (twice if you like) and all of that is still just in the first three rows. It lacks the leadership of the Mercenary Soldier, but for pure firepower it's pretty awesome.

 

You could combine it with gunner for even more ture aim (2 more) and jury rigged


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#31 Kirdan Kenobi

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:26 PM

The marauder is powerful by virtue of less of damage and more of critical injuries. This becomes more true the longer you play. At higher xp, with the proper weapon (a vibro-axe with a monomolecular edge, and preferably a balanced hilt) it's pretty likely for a marauder to have enough lethal blows and advantages on his roll to rack up enough +10s to his crit roll to make instant death nearly certain. As long as he does at least one point of damage past soak (which he will) he can crit, most characters/creatures don't have protection from crits. Very powerful.

This gets out of hand if your GM decides to allow each crit activation to auto-kill a minion. The rules are a little fuzzy on what to do about multiple crit activations and minion groups, and that's the ruling our GM made. I agreed with it at the time, but in retrospect I think it was a mistake.


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#32 bradknowles

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:46 PM

This gets out of hand if your GM decides to allow each crit activation to auto-kill a minion. The rules are a little fuzzy on what to do about multiple crit activations and minion groups, and that's the ruling our GM made. I agreed with it at the time, but in retrospect I think it was a mistake.


Both our Wednesday and our Thursday night groups do auto-kill for minions who get hit with crits. But if you keep them in small enough groups, and you allow only one crit per blast or weapon, then that limits the number of crits that the minions can get hit by. And you can at least partially compensate by throwing more minion groups at the party, each of which is larger.

Rivals and Nemesis adversaries can do a really good job of fighting a Wookie Maurauder to a standstill, as I found out tonight. If the bad guys have enough Soak and enough ranks of Adversary, it’s going to take the entire party a long time to take them down, and that will be one hell of an Epic fight — even if your Wookiee is rolling five yellow dice with ultra-nasty vibro weapons that have Molecular Edge and Balanced Hilt.

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#33 HappyDaze

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:08 PM

The marauder is powerful by virtue of less of damage and more of critical injuries. This becomes more true the longer you play. At higher xp, with the proper weapon (a vibro-axe with a monomolecular edge, and preferably a balanced hilt) it's pretty likely for a marauder to have enough lethal blows and advantages on his roll to rack up enough +10s to his crit roll to make instant death nearly certain. As long as he does at least one point of damage past soak (which he will) he can crit, most characters/creatures don't have protection from crits. Very powerful.

This gets out of hand if your GM decides to allow each crit activation to auto-kill a minion. The rules are a little fuzzy on what to do about multiple crit activations and minion groups, and that's the ruling our GM made. I agreed with it at the time, but in retrospect I think it was a mistake.

Sharpshooter has two instances of Lethal Blows within the first three rows, in addition to all the damage adders.


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#34 daddystabz

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:40 PM

What do you all think about mixing the Mercenary Soldier spec with some Heavy spec for a combat monster? I'd like to also maybe take some of the Pilot spec from Smuggler since I have been the default pilot in our group.



#35 Plan b

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:24 AM

I'd consider what you want out of spec, before purchasing it.

 

All you really need a couple ranks of pilot (space) and a good agility to do most the piloting.

 

Saying that pilot has some, very nice talents in it if you get to use them.



#36 Dbuntu

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:57 AM

I'd consider what you want out of spec, before purchasing it.

 

All you really need a couple ranks of pilot (space) and a good agility to do most the piloting.

 

Saying that pilot has some, very nice talents in it if you get to use them.

If you're mixing it up in space combat, you'll want to have bought into a pilot spec. Beyond GtA, your Piloting skill is going to be surprisingly unimportant compared to the talents you have.



#37 KJDavid

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:33 AM

I have a Mandalorian Hired Gun Enforcer/Marauder. He is absolutely brutal in close combat with a slightly modified vibrosword thanks to Lethal Blows, Feral Strength, and Frenzied Attack. He's also useful in social situations, since the Enforcer is the best specialization if you wanted to be a scary, scary monster. He can downgrade the difficulty of Coercion checks, Loom, and re-roll a failed Coercion once per session. Forcing minions to make Fear checks when you get in close is nice too.






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