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Khal Daenerys


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#1 Grimwalker

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:56 AM

I am first player. I attack with new Dany who has Deadly from Khal. I choose an opponent's character to die, and they in turn kneel that character and another character to oppose.

What is the timing priority for the two kill effects? Does Deadly go off first because it's a keyword? Is Dany's kill effect considered a passive at this step? Can the defender sacrifice the targeted character to Deadly and avoid having to lose two, or as first player can I choose Dany's effect to hit first, making that character moribund and thus unable to be chosen for Deadly?

Edited by Grimwalker, 26 June 2014 - 06:57 AM.


#2 Khudzlin

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:44 AM

Both are passive, so the first player chooses.



#3 ktom

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:49 AM

You are correct that if Deadly is first, the defender can choose the character targeted by Dany and avoid losing both. If the lasting effect from Dany goes first, they cannot. So the first players choice of order matters a lot here.

#4 Grimwalker

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 08:08 AM

Indeed. So are they both Passives, in so many words?

#5 Bomb

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 08:19 AM

Indeed. So are they both Passives, in so many words?

 

Yup.  Deadly is resolved as a passive effect as well as any lasting effect that is initiated off of resolving the challenge.



#6 Grimwalker

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 08:23 AM

Woot!

#7 Slothgodfather

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:05 AM

But how would that scenario matter?   either way, the character died.   I'm curious, in what scenario it would make a difference that would bring up the question?


Edited by Slothgodfather, 27 June 2014 - 11:05 AM.


#8 ktom

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:59 AM

The scenario Grimwalker mentioned: defending the Deadly challenge with 2 characters, one of which was "touched by Dany." Depending on the order, you could lose just the one, or you could lose both.

 

The situation could come up fairly often if Dany has Deadly and marks "awesome character," I would probably choose to defend with awesome character and chump - in hopes of winning the challenge and trading the death of chump for awesome character. If Dany's controller then mucks around with challenge resolution and I end up losing. In that situation, depending on who FP is, there is at least a chance of keeping the chump.



#9 Slothgodfather

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 12:10 PM

gotcha.   It doesn't help that I overlooked they were trying to defend with 2 characters.    makes total sense.



#10 Grimwalker

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:01 AM

The scenario Grimwalker mentioned: defending the Deadly challenge with 2 characters, one of which was "touched by Dany." Depending on the order, you could lose just the one, or you could lose both.

 

The situation could come up fairly often if Dany has Deadly and marks "awesome character," I would probably choose to defend with awesome character and chump - in hopes of winning the challenge and trading the death of chump for awesome character. If Dany's controller then mucks around with challenge resolution and I end up losing. In that situation, depending on who FP is, there is at least a chance of keeping the chump.

 

That's more or less exactly what happened. He overcommitted with two defenders, I burned him with some non-terminal stuff, enough to ensure I still won, and I didn't want to let his 4-cost unique go Deadly-Moribund before Daenerys' ability landed. If the big guy is Dany-Moribund, then the other character has to be sacrificed to Deadly, and that's the way I wanted it to be. 

 

My opponent had two objections: He wasn't convinced Dany's effect would resolve in the Passive step (since it was created by a Response) and he was under the impression that even if it were, that keywords resolved before other passives.


Edited by Grimwalker, 01 July 2014 - 08:04 AM.


#11 ktom

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 10:50 AM

My opponent had two objections: He wasn't convinced Dany's effect would resolve in the Passive step (since it was created by a Response) and he was under the impression that even if it were, that keywords resolved before other passives.

 

And just to say it again (I'm a very repetitive type of guy), Dany's Response creates a lasting effect that initiates and kills the character if the attacker wins the challenge -- whether anyone wants it to or not. That means the lasting effect has a passive initiation, just like the keywords. Additionally, there is no set preference for passive effects in the rules other than "when revealed" plot effects before any other passive effects. Keywords do not get "primacy" over other card effects. That's why the First Player gets to choose the order between Deadly and Frey Hospitality, for example.



#12 Grimwalker

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 11:15 AM

Some things bear repeating: I specifically worded the sentence quoted so as to set up the opportunity for clear answers.






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