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Full Dunland Trap spoilers!


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#41 alogos

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:39 AM

sigh.. Lets try this a 4th time....

YES IT IS LOST AND REGAINED. You are both the first and last player at the same time. So imagine you are two players. You are first and last. When the turn ended you pass the 1st player token AND receive it.

 

Wow... wait a second, you are saying, when playing solo, you lost the status of first player then regain it, wich in this case, (Chief Turch) will proc another instance of engaging you ? (so Lore Pippin, Sam, Quest effect, and all that...) Because there was not any first player, he was not engage with you, and when regaining it, it will engage you anew.

 

I think not, and I will even go as to assume this is not what you wanted to say.

I know you mean good because you take time to reply and try to explain a lot of thing to some newer people here and you they sometimes don't express what they want clearly. Try to understand what they say when they obviously fail to see your point.

 

If you really meant it, then ignore previous paragraph. Just go with : How did you manage to affirm this ? The rules say to pass it to the NEXT, wich, as you said three times, doesn't exist, so you shouldn't passes it.



#42 booored

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:25 AM

That is exactly what I am saying
"People should be less concerned about whether they are being insulted and more concerned if it is the truth"

#43 alogos

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:34 AM

Ok...

 

 

...

 

 

so...

 

 

please care to be more accurate on what you refere to as "This" in your last post ?

I'm quite lost and don't know if you are standing on your ground that "the first player is lost and regain" without any logical explanation and after I point out the rules say the opposite ?



#44 sparrowpisuke

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:56 AM

YES IT IS LOST AND REGAINED. You are both the first and last player at the same time. So imagine you are two players. You are first and last. When the turn ended you pass the 1st player token AND receive it.

 

Rules says (Refresh phase): "...and the first player passes the first player token to the next player clockwise on his left."

And FAQ: (1.46) “Next” player. If there is only one player in the game, there is no next player.

 

So in solo games you can't pass (and receive) the 1st player token yourself.

In solo, you always are the first and last player since the beginning of the game, but there is no trigger to engages the 1st player once already engaged.


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No x,y,z,n  integers , x,y,z>0 , n>2 | x^n+y^n = z^n

 

Proof: My margin is very small too...

 


#45 Glaurung

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:30 AM

 

YES IT IS LOST AND REGAINED. You are both the first and last player at the same time. So imagine you are two players. You are first and last. When the turn ended you pass the 1st player token AND receive it.

 

Rules says (Refresh phase): "...and the first player passes the first player token to the next player clockwise on his left."

And FAQ: (1.46) “Next” player. If there is only one player in the game, there is no next player.

 

So in solo games you can't pass (and receive) the 1st player token yourself.

In solo, you always are the first and last player since the beginning of the game, but there is no trigger to engages the 1st player once already engaged.

 

Yes this is correct as a stone


Wizard is never late.......

 

Glaurung playtrough LOTR LCG on youtube :

http://www.youtube.com/user/olegyd   


#46 booored

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:46 PM

That is the most retarded ruling I have seen in this game for a while. People just love making the game easy and forcing it to not have effects resolve as they haven't the skill to play correctly. You guys can make it the game retarded if you like.. but this ruling is wrong and for fools. It makes NO thematic sense in any way for cards that trigger on the change of the player token to not hit a solo player. The ONLY reason to not trigger it is because you want to make the game easier.
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"People should be less concerned about whether they are being insulted and more concerned if it is the truth"

#47 PsychoRocka

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 04:07 PM

The funniest thing is that the ruling makes this particular stage harder not easier as less time counters are removed each turn which means you have to survive longer against their trap before winning.
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                ~Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul~

~One ring to cover the lands in complete and utter misery, one ring for the dark lord to work his wretched trickery~


#48 Bullroarer Took

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:22 PM

Now that most of us have overcome the Chief Turch issue let's talk about the quest I general. As a solo player I feel there is a formula to it, but that's not too unusual really. The thing that worries me is that the quest is SO complex that it earned a Player's Tip to play slow and make sure you check all the triggers. Is this a trend we need to be worried about?

Simple and hard versus complex and easier?
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Nearly all of my comments are from the perspective of the single handed solo player.

#49 booored

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 08:06 PM

The game has always had many moving parts. Whoops I forgot that at the moment it is +attack or oh all locations had +threat or w/e. This is why everyone plays wrong all the . Trust me if you think you played a perfect game, you probably didn't. This is even more so for solo players as they have no one to check. The quests will only get more complex as time hose by, not less
"People should be less concerned about whether they are being insulted and more concerned if it is the truth"

#50 PsychoRocka

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 08:25 PM

Wow it really does look like you are a captive (or have come to an understanding) with Chief Turch/the boar clan in general as the text on the first stage of The Three Trials reads: "At the edge of a cursed forest, the Boar Shaman explains that you must undertake three trials in order to recover the antlered crown, or face death. Each trial will test your worthiness. Guardian spirits watch over three sacred swords, protecting them from the undeserving."

http://www.fantasyfl...-cardfan-01.png

We might also see these three swords mentioned in some way or another (they may even just be the keys in this quest) as well as the antlered crown itself.

 

Also just realised that in the art for "The Guardian's Fury" which is top right in the image I posted; it looks like a wolf skin on that guardian's head. Pretty sure this means the three guardians are gonna be Raven, Boar and Wolf.


Edited by PsychoRocka, 30 June 2014 - 08:25 PM.

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                ~Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul~

~One ring to cover the lands in complete and utter misery, one ring for the dark lord to work his wretched trickery~


#51 Gizlivadi

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 08:59 PM

Yup, this is exactly what I think as well Psychorocka. It seems that Raven, Boar and Wolf are going to be the spirit guardians as well as the three conflicting clans of the Dunlendings. The swords are going to be the key objectives as well, that somehow unlock the Antlered Crown itself. I think this is a pretty interesting story and it is clear that the design team has decided to give Dunland a much deeper and detailed culture, which I think is amazing. I like how they have kept the mystery about the Crown itself. What is it really? My guess is that it's a magical artifact capable of uniting the clans, sort of like a powerful authority symbol that all clans must bow to, and to the one who bears it. Can't wait to see where this cycle goes!


Edited by Gizlivadi, 30 June 2014 - 09:14 PM.

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"A straight road lay westward, now it is bent."


#52 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 01:05 AM

Raven guardian wields a sword...


That's cursed table-talk, and I'll stick you, if you don't shut it down, see?'


#53 Ana

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 01:43 AM

Let this be a lesson to some. No matter how many times you repeat something, it does not necessarily make it any truer.



#54 Tracker1

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 12:04 PM

Now that most of us have overcome the Chief Turch issue let's talk about the quest I general. As a solo player I feel there is a formula to it, but that's not too unusual really. The thing that worries me is that the quest is SO complex that it earned a Player's Tip to play slow and make sure you check all the triggers. Is this a trend we need to be worried about?
Simple and hard versus complex and easier?


The quest is pretty cool. There are plenty of forced effect to keep track of, but I don't find it any more complex as some others. The more complex quests like this usually see less repeated plays because when I want to have a quick causal game that I like to test new decks on i'll choose something else. There is definitely a formula that has to be figured out to win. Alot of the formula comes down to the transition between stages in this one. Once you know what these transitions are you build a deck accordingly. The transitions between quest cards in this scenario are quite dramatic, and are going to effect your early choices, and the 1st stage messes with a turtle strategy, since you are having to discard your hand every couple turns, but if you speed things up and blast into the 2nd stage you might be unprepared for what you face, and stage 2 intentionally messes up any early preparations any way. All this creates a tense balance of how to proceed.

I decided after losing with eomer/eowyn/imrahil twice to go with my other deck that came out of VoI Grima/ Aragorn/Mirlonde Kamikaze draw deck, and to my surprise it's won 2 out of 3. It's quite funny to play, since my opening strategy is to select the Boar enemy that gets a shadow card when cards are drawn, so before the first quest phase I'll draw like crazy until i get song of kings, Gandalf, and sneak attack, drop a ranger spikes into the staging area while I'm at it and then sneak Gandalf in for quest phase and deal 4 damage to the guy and remove a heap of shadow cards. It's actually not to hard to do with this deck. This deck can get to the 2nd stage pretty easily and does not suffer from the transition all that bad, it actually benefits a bit since my discard pile gets reshuffled into my deck. Dealing with the bear clan chief relies on some chump blockers, and Gandalf a bunch of times. Playing Gandalf for full cost in the last round when the last time counter is removed is a good strategy, since he can defend the chief in combat, then Gandalf will ready in refresh, time counter will be removed, chief attacks again, and Gandalf defends again for the win. I guess the chief never hast to be attacked and defeated to win, not to hard to do, but would add a bit more to the win condition other then just having to defend with all your heroes remaining.
'At last' said Aragorn 'Here are the tracks that we seek!'

#55 booored

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 11:53 PM

Hey tracker! haven't seen you around for a while.. been cooking some new decks or waiting for the full cycle?

Let this be a lesson to some. No matter how many times you repeat something, it does not necessarily make it any truer.


In this case it SHOULD be true.

Edited by booored, 01 July 2014 - 11:54 PM.

"People should be less concerned about whether they are being insulted and more concerned if it is the truth"

#56 Tracker1

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:02 AM

Hey tracker! haven't seen you around for a while.. been cooking some new decks or waiting for the full cycle?

Let this be a lesson to some. No matter how many times you repeat something, it does not necessarily make it any truer.

In this case it SHOULD be true.

I kind of stalled out there for awhile, was mostly making decks with spoiled cards, but I'm working on a new deck mostly designed for dunland trap, but probably will be good on other quests too. The heroes for the deck are Eowyn, Eomer, and Beregond. Eomer, in my opinion has become the best attacker in the game. With one Rohan Warhorse and Firefoot he can do some serious damage. Firefoot puts him at 5 attack, which is great, because then he does not need to rely on allies leaving play regularly, when I need to bump him up to 7 I'll use spirit bofur. Pairing him up with the best defender and quester in the game makes for an interesting deck that can handle most things without relying on a ton of allies.

I was almost going to hold off building decks until I had the whole cycle in hand, since I find it kind of pointless to build a silvan deck with Celeborn right now when we are only scratching the surface of silvan synergy. Secrecy, is also intriguing, but i don't necessarly see how it would help on a quest like Dunland Trap. It's probably the worst quest to try it out on since an enemy is engaged in set up, and turtle strategy seems to suffer. I would love to get all player cards right away, but Then it would be very clear which cards were headed to the box, at least I might try some of the cards that seem a bit lack luster and may even find a use for a card that I thought was worthless, so I guess I'm okay with it. Also scenarios that are earlier in the cycle become easier with all the player cards for the cycle, so I did not want to miss out on that challenge.
'At last' said Aragorn 'Here are the tracks that we seek!'

#57 booored

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:16 AM

yeah, I pre-order the entire cycle and get them delivered in a go for the same reason. Just not enough cards in a pack to bother.


"People should be less concerned about whether they are being insulted and more concerned if it is the truth"

#58 Bullroarer Took

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:18 PM

Tracker - you've mentioned twice that you can't durdle on this quest, but I beg to differ.  It is true that you will probably be throwing away a lot of cards every other turn, but if you are digging for specific cards that can really help you.  Remember that the quest lets you draw a lot of cards too.  Here's my example:  I took my super-hero attachment deck and added a bunch of non-item attachments, especially Dunedain Warning.  To play these I need some Songs so I added extra copies of those.  It's important when using this strategy to really lower the cost of the cards in your deck so that you can play these cards when you draw them and not keep pitching them away of course, but the Songs and Warnings cost 1.  After drawing all of my attachments, and hopefully a Warden of Healing I'm ready to progress to the end step with out much to fear.

 

I'm 4 & 1 with this strategy and the one loss was really bad luck.  Even poor drawing is pretty much a win.


Nearly all of my comments are from the perspective of the single handed solo player.

#59 Tracker1

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 03:48 PM

Tracker - you've mentioned twice that you can't durdle on this quest, but I beg to differ.  It is true that you will probably be throwing away a lot of cards every other turn, but if you are digging for specific cards that can really help you.  Remember that the quest lets you draw a lot of cards too.  Here's my example:  I took my super-hero attachment deck and added a bunch of non-item attachments, especially Dunedain Warning.  To play these I need some Songs so I added extra copies of those.  It's important when using this strategy to really lower the cost of the cards in your deck so that you can play these cards when you draw them and not keep pitching them away of course, but the Songs and Warnings cost 1.  After drawing all of my attachments, and hopefully a Warden of Healing I'm ready to progress to the end step with out much to fear.
 
I'm 4 & 1 with this strategy and the one loss was really bad luck.  Even poor drawing is pretty much a win.


Your absolutly right, after playing a few decks against it, i've found the card draw the scenario provides let's you dig for those cards you need. I dont even have any card draw in my deck since the scenario is so generous. It makes a lot more sense to go with a non item attachment deck then trying to build up an ally army. Once all this is figured out it's pretty simple. Funny thing is that i took some of these deck that work for this scenario against some easier scenarios and they really struggle. That's why this is not a good scenario to test new decks on, since so many of the normal mechanics are altered. It does make for a good challenge though.
'At last' said Aragorn 'Here are the tracks that we seek!'

#60 Bullroarer Took

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:11 PM

I have a feeling that this quest really opens up in multi-player.  It seems like we are saying that a lot lately and I might have to bite the bullet and build a pair of complimentary decks and try things that way.  I think I've been reluctant to do so because I tried that in the early days and things got so easy that it really put me off.  And second, there is already so much going on that trying to play two handed will lead to more mistakes for sure.

 

Oh well... I just got my Khazad-Dum Nightmare pack so I'll try that first.


Nearly all of my comments are from the perspective of the single handed solo player.




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