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#1 OncomingStorm

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:00 PM

This may have been asked before but I could not find it. Is there an actual maximum for stats. I have a person playing a tech priest and he will have a strength over 100 at some point. Is there anything in the books that limits the level a stat can achieve?



#2 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:22 PM

I believe the basic game mechanics chapter defines stats as numbers between zero and 100. Creatures with exceptional capabilities use Unnatural characteristics rather than going over 100.

 

RE: your tech-priest, how exactly did he get over 100 strength? I'm honestly curious as to how he managed that.


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#3 ColArana

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:02 PM

RE: your tech-priest, how exactly did he get over 100 strength? I'm honestly curious as to how he managed that.

 

Really, REALLY good bionic limbs?

 

....While wearing Power Armor?


Edited by ColArana, 25 June 2014 - 09:02 PM.


#4 Fgdsfg

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:31 AM

I'm curious too. I can't see how anyone gets over 100 in any stat. Bonus to modifiers, yes, and so on, but an actual base 100 characteristics? Colour me fishy.

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#5 segara82

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:15 AM

Stats during creation are depending on background/homeworld between 17-45, get modified by background packages, Divination,  can get a total +20 during gameplay, another +10 if you play Ascension, and then only through equipment and implants.

The strongest i have seen was a Feral World Guardsman maxing out at 65, with another +10 Bonus through his Light Power Armour. I am curious how your TP gets a whopping 25/35 points more.


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#6 ColArana

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 04:10 AM

I'm actually trying to figure this out with math, assuming insane luck.

 

I don't believe Feral Tech Priests are possible, so highest starting strength he can have is 40.

 

Assuming he got the +3 strength for a Divination that's 43 starting strength.

 

+20 through Advances brings him up to 63 strength....

 

If he gets really good bionic limbs that's another +10 strength, and Power Armor could bring that up another +10...

 

Capping out at 83 (93 if you add the extra +10 from Ascension).

 

So you can get pretty high, but I don't think it's possible to break 100 even if you were a Feral Worlder (highest you'd get there is 98).



#7 darkforce

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 05:47 AM

Hmmm... the way I'd Min-Max him assuming maximum Luck

 

- Underhive-Mutant with Brute-Mutation and something else (Total Strength: 50)

- Add "Proven Innocent" Background from Book of Judgement. (Total Strength: 53)

- Divination "Thought Begets Heresy, Heresy begets thought" (Total Strength: 56)

- Now add all Advances + Ascension (Strength: 86)

 

With Bionics, you'd have a final Cap of 106... if you now also assume he got Unnatural Strength through a Minor Mutation, you now only need to give him a power fist and point at the enemy for a whopping 2D10 + 26 Damage (used the method with the least damage)



#8 OncomingStorm

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:28 AM

There may be more to it than this but I believe he came in with the following...

 

Strength 40

Advances + Ascension 30

Bionic Arms 10

Power Armor 20

 

Thus attaining a Strength of 100

 

I was just curious if there was a hard cap anywhere, because I have not located one.



#9 Magellan

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:01 PM

I'm pretty sure Bionic Arms give a +10 bonus to strength *checks* rather than to the stat itself.

 

However:

 

Maximum Point Buy: 40

Advances: 30

Power Armour: 20

Mining Helot Implant: 10

Machinator Array: 10

 

There's an easy 110 strength for you, off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more, especially if you have custom gear, mutations and other things.

 

I've personally played an Explorator with 120 Toughness and 100 Strength (though Rogue Trader is a bit different, of course). The core Dark Heresy book does state that characteristics are rated on a scale from 0 to 100, but I never saw a reason you couldn't go beyond that if you felt like it. 96-100 remains automatic failure, but your characteristic bonus increases and you get more DoS on successful tests, is how my group runs it.


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#10 ColArana

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:01 PM

 

 

96-100 remains automatic failure

 

Wait where is this listed? I've seen more than a few arguments that have sprung up out of the whole "Dark Heresy doesn't have an auto-fail roll" in the same way other Tabletop RPG's do.

 

Realistically, the only way someone with 100 strength is failing a strength test, is if he has to do it with negative modifiers, as rolling a "100" still falls within the range that he can pass the test.



#11 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 06:31 AM

A natural 100 is an auto-fail, while a natural 1 is an auto-success (provided success is physically possible). I believe that rule is in the core book but I can't remember the page number.

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#12 Magellan

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 06:44 AM

Whoa, you're right. Dark Heresy has no automatic failure thingy. I wonder where we got that idea. I guess it's off to amend the house rules.

 

As for you, Covered in Weasels, what you say is true in Only War, but not in Dark Heresy.


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#13 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:58 PM

Whoa, you're right. Dark Heresy has no automatic failure thingy. I wonder where we got that idea. I guess it's off to amend the house rules.
 
As for you, Covered in Weasels, what you say is true in Only War, but not in Dark Heresy.


Ah, that's right. My group is using the DH2 Beta rules, so our DH game does include those auto-success and -failure rules. I get editions confused sometimes :D

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#14 borithan

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 03:47 AM

I'm pretty sure Bionic Arms give a +10 bonus to strength *checks* rather than to the stat itself.

 

However:

 

Maximum Point Buy: 40

Advances: 30

Power Armour: 20

Mining Helot Implant: 10

Machinator Array: 10

 

There's an easy 110 strength for you, off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more, especially if you have custom gear, mutations and other things.

One of the reasons I do not think 40k RPG should be played with point buy characteristics.

 

 

 

 

96-100 remains automatic failure

 

Wait where is this listed? I've seen more than a few arguments that have sprung up out of the whole "Dark Heresy doesn't have an auto-fail roll" in the same way other Tabletop RPG's do.

 

Realistically, the only way someone with 100 strength is failing a strength test, is if he has to do it with negative modifiers, as rolling a "100" still falls within the range that he can pass the test.

 

Technically ranged attacks have an auto-fail mechanic... though this is only stated in the Jamming rules. There is states that if you roll 96-100 you have your weapon jam "as well as automatically missing" (so even if the weapon doesn't actually jam, it still misses). Now, nowhere else is this stated, so technically skill checks (and maybe even melee attack rolls, can't quite remember the phrasing) do not have an auto-fail mechanic, but generally in the group we have played we have extended this to all rolls... not that usually this is much of an issue elsewhere, as aside from combat attacks we never actually broke the 95 mark (though Deathwatch attack rolls frequently broke that barrier).

 

Personally I think it was either that the original Black Industry designers intended that 96+ would be a general auto failure (this is consistent with Warhammer Fantasy 1st edition, and possibly 2nd), just they forgot to actually introduce it as a formal rule anywhere (only hint remaining the line from the jamming rules), or they never expected that stats and bonuses would get to the point where it would matter. The initial bonuses to tests capped out at +30, and stats would generally never get over 65 (especially as they were never intended to be purchased with point-buy).



#15 Magellan

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 06:44 AM

Oh yeah, Dark Heresy didn't originally have point either. It's crazy how much you forget after so many years away from the game.

 

However, even if you do play with rolled stats, it only takes an average roll to be able to push a tech-priest up to 100 strength. It requires the Inquisitor's handbook to do it, though, unless you roll some baller mutations.

 

I massively disagree with you, though. While it's hard to do regular, scrub-level DH games with point buy, if you wanna play badass rogue traders or inquisitorial super-troopers, it's perfect.


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#16 borithan

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:07 AM

I find it just degenerates into min-maxing, and actually produces less diverse characters. Players (especially those used to d20 systems) will tend to go max in the thing they think they should be good at, and then dump something else. I personally think more balanced and/or less optimised characters are a heck of a lot more interesting to work round, and the random generation produces this.

 

What I will admit is that it is a bit out of step with current trends, which tend to be about players creating the character they want, rather than playing a character they find themselves with (which is a more old fashioned approach to RPGing, ala older d&d with stat rolling and then working out what you can actually be). However, I don't think the 40k system is a very good system for this kind of game. Also, I tend to think the 40k system as is actually only really works its best for regular starting as scrubs DH. Most of the other games tend to increasingly stretch what the system can actually cope with, and then you get the problem of Deathwatch, which just busted it wide open.


Edited by borithan, 04 July 2014 - 04:07 AM.

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