Jump to content



Photo

Lieutenant Packs - Threat vs Fortune


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 any2cards

any2cards

    Member

  • Members
  • 634 posts

Posted 19 June 2014 - 08:56 AM

Okay, so today I finally got my grubby little EVIL OL hands ( :ph34r:) on all of the Lieutenant packs for Descent 2 (except for Skarn as that hasn't been released as of yet).

 

Obviously, since I just got them, I have not as of yet used them.  I have followed many of the threads that discuss their use, and a few minutes ago, I read the rules that accompany every one of the packs.  It only took me 3 or 4 of them before I realized they were all the same.  Okay, so it wasn't the best of mornings  :P

 

Now, again, I have not actively utilized any of these as of yet.  But it seems to me, at first blush, that an OL has to be very careful and selective in timing when it comes to spending threat tokens to trigger cards, as they immediately become fortune tokens for heroes.

 

And given the fact of what heroes can do with them (for those who don't know - recover fatigue, reroll dice, perform additional actions, collectively spend fortune tokens to draw one additional shop item card), giving heroes fortune tokens could be REALLY REALLY bad for an OL.

 

In fact, I could see injudicious use of threat (which turns into fortune), being able to turn the tide of an encounter/quest/campaign at critical moments  :angry:

 

Question #1: The above was my analysis, in a vacuum, of the situation.  In real world application, is this what happens?  Is it that critical?  I would like to hear back from OLs that have actively used these Lieutenant plots cards, and how the expenditure of threat to trigger plot cards (and thus giving heroes fortune tokens) affected the result of their battles.  Have you found better times to use them?

 

Question #2: The third thing a hero can do with fortune tokens is to gain an additional action.  The rules specifically state that they can only do this once per hero per turn.  The first two things (gain a fatigue and reroll dice) have no such limitation.  I assume, therefore, that a hero could choose to do this any number of times they desire on their turn?  I.e. gain back 4 fatigue if they have 4 fortune tokens (not saying it is the best use, but it is possible)?  Or can that hero spend 1 fortune to reroll 1 die (say it was an X), have it come up an X again, and then spend another fortune to reroll the same die?  Do all of the rerolls have to occur at once?  I am curious how people are playing this.

 

Question #3: The last thing it says heroes can do is "... collectively spend their fortune tokens to draw 1 additional shop item card".  I assume this means that all remaining fortune tokens across all heroes must be spent all at once to draw 1 additional card (in other words, regardless of the total number available, and not per hero but as a collective group).  Since all such fortune tokens have to be returned to the supply after the shopping phase, there would be no point not to spend them.  But it seems that it could cost 1 fortune, or 3, or 6, or whatever heroes have left after the encounter 2 they just played.  If I am reading this correctly, it would behoove the heroes to spend all of their fortune tokens EXCEPT for 1 before the end of encounter 2.  Then, they get full use of all fortune during the active encounter, and it then only costs them 1 to draw an additional shop item card.  Did I read this correctly?  Is this how you are all playing this?

 

Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.



#2 sigmazero13

sigmazero13

    Rules Geek

  • Members
  • 1,900 posts

Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:29 AM

Keep in mind one thing - when the heroes gain Fortune tokens, you have to give it to the hero who has the least fortune.  So the heroes can't just give it all to a single hero.

 

Thus, in a 4-hero game, in order for the heroes to get an extra action, you'd have to spend 5 threat, and the heroes can't have spent any before then.  You ask about using 4 tokens to recover 4 fatigue?  In theory, yes, they could do that, but it would mean (in a 4-hero game) that the OL has spent at least 13 threat during the level in order for a hero to HAVE 4 Fortune tokens.



#3 Alarmed

Alarmed

    Member

  • Members
  • 53 posts

Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:26 AM

Also, about spending Fortune to buy additional items, I believe it's only 2 fortune per extra item and like sigmazero13 said, heroes would only have multiples if you've spent more than 5 threat adn tehy ahve not spent any. That's why the heroes are allowed to pool for that one ability. But 4 heroes with one token each could spend all their tokens to get 2 extra items drawn.

 

Useful if you have the cash to buy a lot, but not so useful if all they've drawn is a bunch of crap items. :P

 

I know I tend to think twice about going for extra items because i've been burnt, like spending hard earned fortune only to get a leather armor, when everyone already has better. :lol:



#4 any2cards

any2cards

    Member

  • Members
  • 634 posts

Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:34 AM

Also, about spending Fortune to buy additional items, I believe it's only 2 fortune per extra item and like sigmazero13 said, heroes would only have multiples if you've spent more than 5 threat adn tehy ahve not spent any. That's why the heroes are allowed to pool for that one ability. But 4 heroes with one token each could spend all their tokens to get 2 extra items drawn.

 

Useful if you have the cash to buy a lot, but not so useful if all they've drawn is a bunch of crap items. :P

 

I know I tend to think twice about going for extra items because i've been burnt, like spending hard earned fortune only to get a leather armor, when everyone already has better. :lol:

 

Okay ... I was asleep at the wheel when I was reading the instructions ... AGAIN.  You are correct that it only takes 2 fortune to draw an additional shop item.  That makes it worse.

 

True, they could get crap draws, but still, what does it matter?  Once they get to the shopping step of the campaign phase, they are going to spend all of their fortune, as they simply lose it after this step.  So there really is no down side for them, but of course, they will still need the gold to buy them.


Edited by any2cards, 19 June 2014 - 11:36 AM.


#5 any2cards

any2cards

    Member

  • Members
  • 634 posts

Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:38 AM

Keep in mind one thing - when the heroes gain Fortune tokens, you have to give it to the hero who has the least fortune.  So the heroes can't just give it all to a single hero.

 

Thus, in a 4-hero game, in order for the heroes to get an extra action, you'd have to spend 5 threat, and the heroes can't have spent any before then.  You ask about using 4 tokens to recover 4 fatigue?  In theory, yes, they could do that, but it would mean (in a 4-hero game) that the OL has spent at least 13 threat during the level in order for a hero to HAVE 4 Fortune tokens.

 

A valid point.  I was focused on the threat of fortune to me (<--- see what I did there  ;) ), and didn't consider that by giving it to the Hero with the least fortune, it will take spending at least 5 threat for someone to get an extra action.  Still, not an impossible thing to occur.



#6 hideousprime

hideousprime

    Member

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 21 June 2014 - 06:49 AM

When you first implement the fortune tokens the heroes are immediately tempted to use them!  In my experience as OL, An extra action to one hero or a re-roll of the die isn't as good as being able to bring out an agent!  It really adds to the spice of the game when heroes have to adjust their thought process. I won't use my agent card until set-up is complete and everyone is familiar with encounter rules.

 I will not use the agent as a hack and slash monster, but move them around the board and strike only when I need to. This creates illusion that I have a hidden agenda and the fact if the agent dies I have to repurchase the card. So, for me the little bonus the heroes get isn't a big deal.



#7 Zaltyre

Zaltyre

    Member

  • Members
  • 442 posts

Posted 21 June 2014 - 10:20 AM

 

Keep in mind one thing - when the heroes gain Fortune tokens, you have to give it to the hero who has the least fortune.  So the heroes can't just give it all to a single hero.

 

Thus, in a 4-hero game, in order for the heroes to get an extra action, you'd have to spend 5 threat, and the heroes can't have spent any before then.  You ask about using 4 tokens to recover 4 fatigue?  In theory, yes, they could do that, but it would mean (in a 4-hero game) that the OL has spent at least 13 threat during the level in order for a hero to HAVE 4 Fortune tokens.

 

A valid point.  I was focused on the threat of fortune to me (<--- see what I did there  ;) ), and didn't consider that by giving it to the Hero with the least fortune, it will take spending at least 5 threat for someone to get an extra action.  Still, not an impossible thing to occur.

 

True- but by that point you'll have gotten an awful lot of benefits from spending threat.



#8 Coldmoonrising

Coldmoonrising

    Member

  • Members
  • 222 posts

Posted 24 June 2014 - 09:45 AM

The biggest thing I've noticed, as OL, is that the heroes get so wrapped up in completing their encounter objective that they forget to use them. The other problem I've noticed that I, as the OL, forget to use the plot cards occasionally too, or getting threat for that matter. I haven't played many games, so far, with plot decks so my conclusions are a bit skewed at the moment.



#9 any2cards

any2cards

    Member

  • Members
  • 634 posts

Posted 24 June 2014 - 11:44 AM

The biggest thing I've noticed, as OL, is that the heroes get so wrapped up in completing their encounter objective that they forget to use them. The other problem I've noticed that I, as the OL, forget to use the plot cards occasionally too, or getting threat for that matter. I haven't played many games, so far, with plot decks so my conclusions are a bit skewed at the moment.

 

Still, this is a good point for me to remember.  As I stated, while I have all of the Lieutenant Pack expansions, I have yet to utilize any of them.  Like you mentioned, it will become one more thing for me as OL to keep straight, and to remember to employ.



#10 BentoSan

BentoSan

    Member

  • Members
  • 380 posts

Posted 25 June 2014 - 12:18 PM

In my games the heroes often spend the fortune tokens on a reroll when they roll and X. So in this respect this is effectively giving the heroes an additional action, which isnt something i like to do lightly! Personally i am very cautious about when and where i use threat tokens and i am constantly weighing up the advantage they give to me over the heroes.

 

Threat tokens are often best spent near the end of the second encounter so the heroes do not have the opportunity to get much of anything out of them.

 

Its also important to remember if they have 2 threat tokens at the end of a quest then they can use that to get another shop card, which is pretty huge in my books. The right card popping up for the heroes in the shop deck is the difference between the heroes losing and you getting your ass kicked because they just got a really nice weapon.


  • Carbini likes this

#11 any2cards

any2cards

    Member

  • Members
  • 634 posts

Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:10 PM

The right card popping up for the heroes in the shop deck is the difference between the heroes losing and you getting your ass kicked because they just got a really nice weapon.

 

Xaxt damn heroes ...

 

"From Hell's heart I stab at thee ... For hate's sake, I spit my last breath, at thee ..."    :ph34r:



#12 sigmazero13

sigmazero13

    Rules Geek

  • Members
  • 1,900 posts

Posted 25 June 2014 - 02:39 PM

Using threat early may give them more opportunity to reroll X's, but using threat late just means they are more likely to use it to get the extra card.  It can be a wash.

 

I think the OL gets more out of threat overall than the heroes, but you do want to use it wisely.



#13 Carbini

Carbini

    Member

  • Members
  • 129 posts

Posted 25 June 2014 - 03:33 PM

Yea the best thing the hero's can do is reroll the X with fortune. I've never spent 2 for an extra shop card and don't think I ever would, especially with the interlude "Buy anything from act one" shopping phase (My group house-rules this into simply a 10-card shopping step, since with all the expansions in use, buying from the entire act one shop across all expansions can get a little.... metagamey...).
Rolling the X is one of the most game-swinging elements of the game, and the threat abilities when used right can still be more effective than a good attack htiting/missing (and possibly missing again). The LT packs are for sure a boost to the overlord, and honestly it's needed. On top of that, the flavor they bring is perfect. The overlord I'm playing with now picked Valyndra and is having a blast just throwing large and massive monsters at us non-stop, each one getting all the bonuses he can muster.



#14 Coldmoonrising

Coldmoonrising

    Member

  • Members
  • 222 posts

Posted 26 June 2014 - 03:09 PM

... The overlord I'm playing with now picked Valyndra and is having a blast just throwing large and massive monsters at us non-stop, each one getting all the bonuses he can muster.

 

Cause that's all her deck is about, throwing 2x2/2x3 base size monsters at the heroes, lol. Still a good way to switch up what could become stay campaigns.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS