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Dealing with Bionics


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#1 RogalDorn01

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:52 AM

In my campaign the Techmarine is an Iron Hand.  As such before every single mission he uses a portion of it to requisition a new bionic limb for himself.  So far I have told him that per the rulebook there is recovery time for this.  So he has not had any of it actually installed because they have been fighting nonstop.  But once we leave this system he is going in for treatment and I think he will now have all four of his limbs as Bionics.  How can I simulate the massive effect that this will have on his performance.  I feel like there would be an adjustment period per new limb that would take time to full adjust.  Would I be out of place to say that each new limb would take like d3 months to fully adjust too, and that during that time he will take a -10 to BS, WS, and AG?  Obviously this would be cumulative, one limb had already been taken care of.  But the other three he is lopping off would mean that each one will be rolled for separately and all added together.  So currently a -30 essentially...I feel like there should be some sort of temporary price that must be paid for the gift of becoming a machine.


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#2 RogalDorn01

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:55 AM

My other thought was that instead of the recovery time penalty.  Just make him pay an EXP cost per bionic.  This represents him spending the time to master it.  I hadn't intended for this to take this tone, perhaps this would be better in the houserule section...


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#3 ak-73

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:16 AM

Don't be excessive though. Any penalty you apply here will also apply to cybernetics coming out of criticals. Astartes have the best bodies and minds and medical facilities. Personally, I would limit it to one new deliberate cybernetic per sufficient downtime. It's just a better narrative to see an Iron Hand grow slowly into a machine.

 

Alex


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#4 RogalDorn01

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 12:44 PM

Yeah, I assumed that's how it would work as well.  But there isn't anything in the rules to actually make that a thing.  That's why I was thinking that allowing it but putting a penalty in place for some time would be good.  I had never considered that one of the players would just immediately go nuts with his Requisition in order to become a robot...Realisticly there is no reason he shouldn't be able to do a few at once, it would just make it WAY harder to adjust to it and get comfortable.  I agree it is a better narrative, but the player is certainly having fun, and that really is the goal.  I am just trying to craft a system that rewards good roleplaying.  Ok, here is a new idea.

 

If you take One Bionic there is a penatly for 1d5 weeks - 1 week per degree of success on a Challenging Toughness Test

 - Limb Penalty =        -10 On BS, WS, AG

 - Other Bionic -         -5 STR AND  -5 Toughness

 

If you take Two Bionics there is a penalty for 2d5 Weeks - 1 week Per degree of success on a Difficult Toughness test

  - Limb Penalty =        -20 On BS, WS, AG

 - Other Bionic -         -10 STR AND  -10 Toughness

 

If you Take Three Bionics there is a penalty for 3d5 Weeks - 1 Week per degree of success on a Hard Toughness Test

  - Limb Penalty =        -30 On BS, WS, AG

 - Other Bionic -         -15 STR AND  -15 Toughness

 

 

If you take more than three you can do it but you will have to burn a fatepoint, but you can treat it as three Bionics at once essentially.

 

Thoughts?


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#5 herichimo

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 05:50 PM

If he's electively chopping off arms and using mission requisition for non necessary replacements, then he's breaking the rules.

 

Here is the clarification from FFG:

"The rules for bionic replacements are not intended to be purchased with requisition unless extenuating circumstances arise that make the replacements necessary. Of course, in the end the Game Master has final say on what is appropriate for their campaign.

Thanks for your question,

Tim"

 

Extenuating circumstances involve the arm no longer being there. Wanting +2 TB doesn't count as extenuating circumstances. If you want to let him continue to violate the rules that's up to you, but according to the official rules you cannot simply chop off your arms and replace them whenever you want.


Edited by herichimo, 18 June 2014 - 05:51 PM.

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#6 RogalDorn01

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 08:32 AM

If he's electively chopping off arms and using mission requisition for non necessary replacements, then he's breaking the rules.

 

Here is the clarification from FFG:

"The rules for bionic replacements are not intended to be purchased with requisition unless extenuating circumstances arise that make the replacements necessary. Of course, in the end the Game Master has final say on what is appropriate for their campaign.

Thanks for your question,

Tim"

 

Extenuating circumstances involve the arm no longer being there. Wanting +2 TB doesn't count as extenuating circumstances. If you want to let him continue to violate the rules that's up to you, but according to the official rules you cannot simply chop off your arms and replace them whenever you want.

Where is this written?!?  I would be overjoyed to have an actual official reason for him to not be able to do this!

 

And I don't mean to come off defensive...but I'm not "Allowing him to break the rules."  I am allowing him to play the game the way it was written.  If you are telling me that somewhere it is written that this isn't how it works I will be thrilled.  I made this post because I don't like the way it currently is, it would be really cool to find out that it isn't the way it appears to be!


Edited by RogalDorn01, 19 June 2014 - 08:34 AM.

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#7 ak-73

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:32 AM

Official response to an inquiry via Rules Questions link. Can be considered RAW.


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#8 RogalDorn01

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:58 AM

Official response to an inquiry via Rules Questions link. Can be considered RAW.

I totally get that, but how can I find these official responses?  Is there a way to sort the forum for only posts that had responses from FFG people?


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#9 ak-73

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 01:13 PM

You can do what I did: search for them in a lengthy process. Fortunately, you don't have to because I already did. I only need to put all of them up on my blog.

http://40kroleplay.w...ine-cybernetics

 

Alex


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#10 RogalDorn01

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 01:38 PM

You can do what I did: search for them in a lengthy process. Fortunately, you don't have to because I already did. I only need to put all of them up on my blog.

http://40kroleplay.w...ine-cybernetics

 

Alex

My hero!


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#11 herichimo

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 03:08 PM

I also keep an archive of all the answers I get, or others post, from FFG.



#12 Errant Knight

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:32 PM

Rogal, I'm real big into letting my players stick to the rules, and I do, too, but it sounds like your player is really pushing the limit to abuse.  He's using a bionically-centered character from a bionically-centered chapter to what sounds to me from your description as some pretty cheap ends.  Sometimes you just have to put the stop to such things.  I always ask myself this key question.  Does this player take the fun from other players?



#13 ak-73

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:03 AM

I disagree, EK. That Techmarine needs bionics to unlock the higher rank Iron Hand Solo Mode abilities. No other chapter has to do this, so it's only fair to be fairly liberal with bionic requisitioning there.

 

Alex


My 40K Blog (essentially a Best Of FFG Forums):

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#14 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 06:27 AM

Start including some haywire grenades and see how thrilled he is about all those bionics.


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#15 ak-73

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 09:24 AM

An Iron Hand Techmarine? Very, regardless of what happens! :D

 

Alex


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#16 RogalDorn01

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 11:13 AM

Rogal, I'm real big into letting my players stick to the rules, and I do, too, but it sounds like your player is really pushing the limit to abuse.  He's using a bionically-centered character from a bionically-centered chapter to what sounds to me from your description as some pretty cheap ends.  Sometimes you just have to put the stop to such things.  I always ask myself this key question.  Does this player take the fun from other players?

To answer this question.  No everyone loves this player and expects this type of behavior, it causes ZERO conflict.  It goes not take away from the fun at all, I just wanted him to have to work harder to do the things he wants to do!

 

With that in mind I am allowing him to take a bionic with each rank of "The Flesh is Weak" and I am still going to force him to make rolls to account for getting used to parts of your body being replaced.  So we retconned his previous selections in order to make it fit better.  Being an Iron Hands marine will give him a jump start, but it will take him slightly longer now to become all the machine he wants to be.  He is happy with it.


"And now...witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational invisible doggy fence..."


#17 Errant Knight

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:24 PM

Alex, the Solo Modes can be unlocked with any cybernetics, not just bionic limbs.

 

And Rogal, if no one else is being shut down in the game, then I let the players go with it.  I do think he'd find better upgrades, though, than bionic limbs, but hey, that's a personal choice.



#18 RogalDorn01

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:48 PM

He is mostly going for the bionic limbs because he knows that the most flesh he can replace with the blessed machine the closer he can come to purging all weakness from him form.  It's kind of a big deal to him...but i'm sure the toughness bonus doesn't hurt!


"And now...witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational invisible doggy fence..."


#19 herichimo

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 03:00 AM

Just be sure to throw some "only affects bionics stuff" at him. A sentient warp created rust demon for instance!



#20 RogalDorn01

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:15 AM

Just be sure to throw some "only affects bionics stuff" at him. A sentient warp created rust demon for instance!

That would be viscous of me!  I like it!


"And now...witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational invisible doggy fence..."





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