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#1 Chav

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:05 AM

So, back in December a friend introduced me to descent, after 1 game I wanted the game for myself, and now I own everything except the base lieutenant packs (which I seem not to be able to find anywhere ) and the conversion kit. I REALLY love the game.

 

So, I play the game with 3 diferentgroups, say actually 4 but 2 them are the same, just added an player since he live a long way from here and don’t come that often. Most often we play with 3 heroes, as we are 4 groups, but we have played a little with 4 heroes. The OL varies, and we play a lot of games together and the strategic level of the players are more or less the same.

 

We have completed 4 Shadow rune campaigns, 1 Lair of the wyrm and are halfway into act 2 in both a shadow rune and a Labyrinth of ruin campaign and just about to hit the interlude in a shadown rune campaign. Thus I think I have a fine amount experience, though not that perfect.

 

Generally, the OL have been stomped are solidly beaten. In the shadow rune we still have to try the interlude if the OL won 2 act 1 quests. Actually we only had 1 Shadow rune campaign where it was close, and the OL pulled it of in the final. The rest have been OL stomped. Generally a few factors have had a huge impact

 

1)    In two finished campaigns and the two unfinished we have had Syndrael. This characters just seems broke to us. So far the conclusion is that ekstra actions is some of the best thing you can get, and Syndrael feat adds 1 action to 2 players. Most often the players use the feat in turn 1, gets into position so they can start to beat up monsters with double attacks, leaving nothing alive, or uses it to stun/immobolise/etc the guy they need to kill, which makes him a sitting duck.

2)    Jain Fairwood, the issues is the same as above, but not nearly as powerfull. This in total gives more actions, but if you make full use of it you will get isolated, and most often die, don’t know why I bring it up, but it do add some frustrations

3)    Tresure hunter now this is just stupidly good. We have used him in 2 campaigns, first we changed the char to wildlander around the interlude, but at this point it was too late. This game was not even close to funny, as they stomping of the OL was taken to new highs.

4)    The campaign balance? We have played the shadow rune, and well, as I said the OL have gotten stomped. In the Lair of the Wyrm and Labyrinth the players have gotten stomped! So maybe its just because the Shadow rune is far easier for the players and the others are easier for the OL? Though the 4 act 1 rumor quests we have played have been won easily by the OL, even when he is getting stomped in the rest of the quests.

5)    Now I love the game, and own almost everything. But especially with the nerekhall expansion I am starting to grow wary. I love new monsters and characters, keep em coming. But the amount of classes and shop item decks are just growing out of hand. Its, to me, not an issue yet with the classes, but shop items really are. I just don’t feel like removing anything, but that deck is growing BIG!

6) Some of the quests just seems downright stupid. I mean, how can the OL win Death on Wing unless he wins the first encounter and the players **** up? The 3 times it have been played have been, Syndrael feating in turn 1 and killing Belthir, one time the OL even had first turn. The 3rd, without syndrael the players just walked up with fatique and killed him.

 

Oh well, just a few thoughts, don’t know what the point it, just felt like sharing some thoughts I guess


Edited by Chav, 18 June 2014 - 01:07 AM.


#2 any2cards

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:00 AM

Just in case the OL isn't, I would focus on a couple of things:

  1. Try to limit the heroes gold as much as possible - this in turn makes it more difficult for them to buy shop items
  2. Try to use open groups that force the heroes to decide whether or not to attempt to win Encounter 1, or search - again in an effort to limit the amount of gold they get.  In addition, make sure that you are playing correctly - once the "winning" conditions are met for an encounter - it is over - the heroes cannot search after the fact.
  3. As OL, I would spend very few of my cards (if any) during Encounter 1, saving my entire hand for encounter 2.  Make sure you understand the entire quest - reading it as often as necessary - so that you can plan accordingly.  Some OL decks are better suited than others - of course, once you pick one, you are stuck with it, so play with all of them over time and get a feel for what each can do.  For example, there are many quests which result in a "race".  If you are using the original base OL deck, saving all of your cards until the second encounter can result in you having 2 Dash cards, which can greatly determine the impact of a race.
  4. Treasure Hunter can be a pain in the ass, but there are ways to control their overall effectiveness.  One thing I have done in the past, if I perceive it to be a problem, is to forgo "winning" the Encounter and/or quest, and just hammer that hero with all of my attacks until you can knock them down.  Often times, I get the heroes so focused on trying to get that Hero back up and staying up, that they lose overall awareness of the encounter/quest.
  5. If you do win a quest, make sure as OL you are picking the next quest that best suits your strengths, and maximizes the heroes weaknesses.

Some of this is potentially not in your control, as it sounds like your heroes are making good use of their heroic feats.  It can be a real pain in the *&^ to see all of your monsters destroyed before you even get a turn.  Sometimes, if I feel it is going to be better for me in these situations, I actually make it EASIER on the heroes to win the encounter (especially if it is part 1), if that means that they get distracted and don't search - as this in the long run limits their gold, and can make it better for me.  :P



#3 Sixko

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:34 AM

 

  1. Try to use open groups that force the heroes to decide whether or not to attempt to win Encounter 1, or search - again in an effort to limit the amount of gold they get.  In addition, make sure that you are playing correctly - once the "winning" conditions are met for an encounter - it is over - the heroes cannot search after the fact.

 

Any more specific tips regarding this?



#4 Whitewing

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 07:35 AM

3 hero groups favor the heroes heavily, it's to be expected that the overlord is getting stomped. 4 hero games are much better balanced: if you only have 3 people to play the heroes, try letting them have an extra hero as a group so you can have a 4 hero game.



#5 BentoSan

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:11 AM

3 hero groups favor the heroes heavily, it's to be expected that the overlord is getting stomped. 4 hero games are much better balanced: if you only have 3 people to play the heroes, try letting them have an extra hero as a group so you can have a 4 hero game.

 

^-- This

 

Let the heroes share the healer, then each can have their own other class each. This makes the game play a lot better.



#6 Chav

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 08:35 AM

Thanks for the tips any2cards, though there wasent so much new, but its good to get confirmed we dont do the wrong stuff:D One thing i am thinking of is maybe the game is like left4dead. At first the human players stomps the zombies, as you learn to play zombies the zombies starts winning and the players then modifies their playstayle and the game ends up very balanced (thats at least how the 10-15 guys i played it with got that game working). Maybe its the same here, with zombies being the OL.

Actually, the 2 games with 4 players, Labyrinth of Ruin and Lair of the Wyrm, is the biggest stomps we have had.

Our focus isent optimizing for the final, but winning every quest posible, on a quest level, not encounter. As such, both players and no matter who plays the OL will almost always forgo getting threat, search cards etc if it would cost them victory, but if you can win and get the stuff, it a great boom



#7 any2cards

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:16 AM

Thanks for the tips any2cards, though there wasent so much new, but its good to get confirmed we dont do the wrong stuff:D One thing i am thinking of is maybe the game is like left4dead. At first the human players stomps the zombies, as you learn to play zombies the zombies starts winning and the players then modifies their playstayle and the game ends up very balanced (thats at least how the 10-15 guys i played it with got that game working). Maybe its the same here, with zombies being the OL.

Actually, the 2 games with 4 players, Labyrinth of Ruin and Lair of the Wyrm, is the biggest stomps we have had.

Our focus isent optimizing for the final, but winning every quest posible, on a quest level, not encounter. As such, both players and no matter who plays the OL will almost always forgo getting threat, search cards etc if it would cost them victory, but if you can win and get the stuff, it a great boom

 

I find this interesting.  Experience, at least for my group of heroes, has demonstrated that maximizing their gold (whether this be through searching everything available), winning quests that provide additional gold, etc. has more often than not been the deciding factor as to whether or not they ultimately win the overall campaign.

 

If they don't get sufficient gold, they don't have the opportunity to by the shop items that will be necessary to be competitive, especially in ACT II quests and the finale.  This in turn can lead to a snowball effect as the quests proceed.

 

In point of fact, I cannot remember a single quest that we played, where the heroes were able to win the overall campaign, without having been reasonable successful in getting to all search tokens, and maximizing their gold in other ways.

 

As far as the OL is concerned, I think it simply takes time to develop the strategies necessary to be competitive in Descent 2.  There are so many things that you can try, so many approaches you can take, that I am always testing out new things.

 

One example.  Our group was, and still is, big fans of Descent First Edition.  It is a completely different game, and many of the skills, tricks, etc. learned as both OL and Heroes simply don't translate to Descent Second Edition.  But, because I was willing to try new things all the time in Descent Second Edition, I learned something.

 

Specifically, in Descent First Edition, an OL can customize his deck utilizing something called treachery.  In order to customize and add cards by spending treachery, you had to discard something from the base deck on a card for card basis.  One of the cards I almost always got rid of was Kobold Spawn cards, because those monsters in Descent First Edition just didn't play very well.  So after many, many hours/days/months/years of playing the game, it became a typical strategy.

 

When I purchased Descent Second Edition, and because I had everything to First Edition, I bought the Conversion Kit so that I could use all of the monsters from First Edition.  Well, because of past experience, I had a very low opinions of Kobolds, and thus never used them as an open group while playing Second Edition.  Then one day, I decided to change things up on my heroes, and play some open groups I had never played before, just to try things, and develop new strategies.  One of those open groups I employed was Kobolds.  And long and behold, while they were next to worthless in First Edition, they had some very applicable strengths in Second Edition.  So not only did I learn some new strategies, I added another open group to my repertoire, not to mention the fact that the Kobolds generated some SERIOUSLY funny moments, both for myself and my heroes.

 

I remember one encounter where we were all laughing so damn hard we had to stop playing for a while because nobody could do anything but laugh.

 

And that I think is the most important thing ... whatever you do, have fun playing the game.  I don't mind trying things, even crazy things, even if I end up getting my butt handed to me ... because sometimes, I am enlightened with what I tried, and many times I get a good laugh out of it !


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#8 Chav

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:44 AM

Good point. It might also be some of the issue, the OL no matter who plays it, tend to try alot of stuff, and even though the players do the same, its more important, it seems to me, what the OL ends up picking then what the players pick. 



#9 hideousprime

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 06:56 AM

Hey chav, 

 

I got all the lieutenant packs on ebay, even with shipping they cost me about the same as the store would!


Edited by hideousprime, 21 June 2014 - 06:56 AM.





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