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Proximity Mines vs. Huge Template


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#1 That One Guy

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:59 PM

Does anyone know of any rule that exempts the Huge ships from following the "maneuver template overlap" rule of the Proximity Mines? Also I don't have any experience maneuvering the huge ships, so is it possible to turn in a direction without placing the template on the inside of the turn and still make the turn correctly? I mean, that template is huge so it seems like it would be a great way to use it against them...



#2 Skargoth

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:11 PM

That is interesting, but considering the epic template doesn't actually occupy where the ship is moving through and the huge ship moves through itself more than anything else I would say no, template does not count for huge ships. Besides, they are easier to predict for actual bomb collisions anyway.

 

I would houserule this until FAQ clarifies.

 

Edit: Ok, looking at the CR-90 rulebook everything about obstacles and collisions specifically uses the phrase final position, nothing about maneuver template. Still this is not a direct clarification about proximity mines.


Edited by Skargoth, 16 June 2014 - 11:42 PM.

You don't need to strip your miniatures, painting over is fine. No, there should not be a fourth faction, three is the magic number for countering flavor lists and to break up faction distribution. Someone else has likely thought up and posted your amazing new build, so you don't need to stroke your ego when reposting it. The prequels sucked and so would a game based on it. YES, there should be a Custom Forum for terrain and repaints! Moving on...


#3 That One Guy

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:41 PM

Seems pretty clear to me:

 

Proximity_Mines.png


Edited by That One Guy, 16 June 2014 - 11:41 PM.


#4 That One Guy

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:43 PM

I just wanted to know if any Huge ship rule inserts specifically addressed it.



#5 ziggy2000

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:47 PM

That is interesting, but considering the epic template doesn't actually occupy where the ship is moving through and the huge ship moves through itself more than anything else I would say no, template does not count for huge ships. Besides, they are easier to predict for actual bomb collisions anyway.

 

I would houserule this until FAQ clarifies.

 

Edit: Ok, looking at the rulebook everything about obstacles and collisions specifically uses the phrase final position, nothing about maneuver template. Still this is not a direct clarification about proximity mines.

What That One Guy said, although the wording of the card has received errata in the latest FAQ to read:

 

“When a ship’s base or maneuver template overlaps

this token, this token detonates.”
(This was changed to reflect that a boost or barrel roll, which are not maneuvers, could also detonate the mine.)
 
Haven't looked yet but I don't think there's anything in the Huge Ship rules that would override card wording.
 
Seems a bit odd because of the size of the Huge template, but the wording is clear.

Edited by ziggy2000, 16 June 2014 - 11:51 PM.


#6 Skargoth

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:51 PM

Seems pretty clear to me:

 

Proximity_Mines.png

To clarify, I was looking at the CR-90 rulebook.

 

Does it really make sense that a huge ship's side template would trigger the mine if the ship doesn't actually go on that path? We're comparing wave 2 bomb and new special scenario conditions. I think it just needs to be FAQ'd.


You don't need to strip your miniatures, painting over is fine. No, there should not be a fourth faction, three is the magic number for countering flavor lists and to break up faction distribution. Someone else has likely thought up and posted your amazing new build, so you don't need to stroke your ego when reposting it. The prequels sucked and so would a game based on it. YES, there should be a Custom Forum for terrain and repaints! Moving on...


#7 That One Guy

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:52 PM

So then… that should be fun. This makes me wish even harder that generic bombers had EPTs.



#8 flaick

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:01 AM

There is an errat for that card. Pag.2 of FAQS.


Rebels: 3 Xwing, 1 Awing.

Imperials: 3 Tie Fighter, 1 Tie Advanced, 3 Tie Inteceptor, 1 Slave, 2 Tie Bomber, 1 Shuttle Lambda.


#9 That One Guy

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:03 AM

There is an errat for that card. Pag.2 of FAQS.

Yes, that was already mentioned… and has nothing to do with Huge ships.



#10 ziggy2000

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:09 AM

 

Does it really make sense that a huge ship's side template would trigger the mine if the ship doesn't actually go on that path? We're comparing wave 2 bomb and new special scenario conditions. I think it just needs to be FAQ'd.

 

No it doesn't, and it probably does need a FAQ.



#11 Marinealver

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:37 AM

I would say if moving the base via template causes the base at any point to come into contact with the proximity mine then it is a hit. Even if you are doing a 2 turn with a regular ship. The range ruler might not come into contact with the mine but if you drag the base along the range ruler (as if you were moving from overlapping) and that base does come into contact during the move then it is an overlap.

 

With the epic ship first the base hardly moves. Even with a turn the base overlaps allot of it's last position. Also sliding it in a turn is fairly simple and if a proximity mine is in the path there would be no question if it contacts or not.


You can always start another round if you lost the last one.


#12 iPeregrine

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:48 AM

The range ruler might not come into contact with the mine but if you drag the base along the range ruler (as if you were moving from overlapping) and that base does come into contact during the move then it is an overlap.


This is absolutely wrong. Ships do not move along the maneuver template, they are simply placed at the end of it. All that matters for purposes of proximity mines is the final location of the ship (wherever it ends up) and the maneuver template. You are of course free to add a house rule that works differently, but please be clear that you are talking about your own new rule and not explaining the rules as published by FFG.
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#13 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:09 AM

Which is correct, and fine for smaller ships.  It means that a ship is only a manouvre template "wide" whilst moving (so the template can fit through a gap between asteroids that the ship's base couldn't, and no collision occurs).

 

The issue, as noted, is the huge ship manouvre template. It's placed at the side of the ship, meaning that a ship doesn't precisely move along it, which can lead to some silly contradictions.

 

That said:

 

SWX11-movement-diagram.png

 

You can never be in a situation where you 'skip over' a proximity mine: see the picture above - even a speed 4 straight only moves you your own length, hence your base will still end up on top of a proximity mine.

 

On a straight manouvre, you could potentially put the template down on either side of the ship, so you shouldn't set off a mine that's "off to one side of you".

 

The only time you really have an issue is if you're turning into the direction where a proximity mine is. And frankly, in that situation, I'm fine with you setting off the proximity mine....



#14 DanZero

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:36 AM

Page 4 of huge ship rules:

overlapping obstacles
When a huge ship executes a maneuver and the final position of one of its sections overlaps one or more obstacle tokens, the huge ship is dealt one faceup Damage card. Draw this Damage card from the Damage deck that corresponds to the affected section. If both sections overlap, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.
Obstacles do not cause a huge ship to skip its “Perform Action” step. All obstacle tokens that are overlapped by a huge ship are immediately removed from the play area.
The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle.

While not specifically addressing proximity mines, if a maneuver template doesn't trigger an obstical overlap- faceup Damage card- it seems pretty likely that the maneuver template doesn't detonate a mine.
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#15 Aminar

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 08:14 AM

Odds are this will be faqd to function like obstacles and huge templates. For now I plan on working off of this rules foundation, but RAW says Boom.

#16 Filter

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:15 AM

Page 4 of huge ship rules:
overlapping obstacles
When a huge ship executes a maneuver and the final position of one of its sections overlaps one or more obstacle tokens, the huge ship is dealt one faceup Damage card. Draw this Damage card from the Damage deck that corresponds to the affected section. If both sections overlap, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.
Obstacles do not cause a huge ship to skip its “Perform Action” step. All obstacle tokens that are overlapped by a huge ship are immediately removed from the play area.
The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle.
While not specifically addressing proximity mines, if a maneuver template doesn't trigger an obstical overlap- faceup Damage card- it seems pretty likely that the maneuver template doesn't detonate a mine.


In some post on the forum the other day, it was mentioned that mines/bombs are not obstacles. I want to say to was in relation to the YT-2400 ignoring obstacles.

#17 Aminar

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:17 AM

Page 4 of huge ship rules:
overlapping obstacles
When a huge ship executes a maneuver and the final position of one of its sections overlaps one or more obstacle tokens, the huge ship is dealt one faceup Damage card. Draw this Damage card from the Damage deck that corresponds to the affected section. If both sections overlap, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.
Obstacles do not cause a huge ship to skip its “Perform Action” step. All obstacle tokens that are overlapped by a huge ship are immediately removed from the play area.
The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle.
While not specifically addressing proximity mines, if a maneuver template doesn't trigger an obstical overlap- faceup Damage card- it seems pretty likely that the maneuver template doesn't detonate a mine.


In some post on the forum the other day, it was mentioned that mines/bombs are not obstacles. I want to say to was in relation to the YT-2400 ignoring obstacles.
Correct. But that isn't to say they won't FAQ it for the same reason they made the templates ignore obstacles. He's looking at the reason behind the rule, more than at the rule.

#18 dandirk

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:36 AM

Page 4 of huge ship rules:

overlapping obstacles
When a huge ship executes a maneuver and the final position of one of its sections overlaps one or more obstacle tokens, the huge ship is dealt one faceup Damage card. Draw this Damage card from the Damage deck that corresponds to the affected section. If both sections overlap, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.
Obstacles do not cause a huge ship to skip its “Perform Action” step. All obstacle tokens that are overlapped by a huge ship are immediately removed from the play area.
The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle.

While not specifically addressing proximity mines, if a maneuver template doesn't trigger an obstical overlap- faceup Damage card- it seems pretty likely that the maneuver template doesn't detonate a mine.

 

+1 here... I believe this interpretation follows the spirit and consistency of Huge ship rules.  Until FAQed otherwise I would play template is not a trigger for bombs.


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#19 barn34

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 11:44 AM

yeah, my logical interpretation was that you treat the proximity mine like you would overlapping a ship or asteroid...so the template is ignored and it's just where the based goes and/or ends up.



#20 That One Guy

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:09 PM

Well, since no rule explicitly states it, I'm going to keep going by the printed rule until they officially come out one way or the other.


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