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Wood Elf physique


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#1 DrWorm73

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:05 AM

As I understand it Wood Elves are just High Elves who just stayed behind, so are their physiques really all that different?  I ask this because Ulthuan Scale is listed as being made specifically for High Elves and it invokes a mishap for other races, but it seems to me that Wood Elves would be able to fit it just fine.



#2 Carcosa

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:50 AM

Remember dude, the war of the beard was 2000+ years ago, so even with the higher generation level, the races have become more distinct. The High elves have become a far physically stronger race (ok sure, it's not reflected in the stats, just the fluff) than the Wood elves. The Wood elves would be thinner, lighter, and more agile than the High elves based on even 10 generations.

 

In addition (fluff wise), the old races tend to only build stuff for themselves and damn the rest of the old world, or even their brother races.



#3 DrWorm73

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 03:41 AM

Well, 2000 years even for humans is the blink of an eye when it comes to major evolutionary changes of an apex species.  That said, if that is the lore of Warhammer then I am fine with it. 



#4 Ralzar

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 04:06 AM

I would say it isn't due to evolution so much as a difference in their way of life. High elves train and perform tasks that favor strength (heavier armor and weapons, more melee combat), while wood elves favor stealth and agility, Their diets might also have an impact. I can not see 2000 years having any sort of impact on their races when they are as long lived as they are.

 

Of course, it might be that the wood elves and high elves were already two separate breeds before they split ways.



#5 valvorik

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 12:17 PM

A wood elf would have the penalty for even if his body told him it fit his spirit and intuition would tell him "this is wrong".



#6 DrWorm73

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 02:42 PM

Now, I'm okay with the whole physique thing for it not working, but why would it feel wrong to their "spirit"?



#7 Ralzar

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 02:53 AM

This is basically a slightly milder variation of the "can slayers wear armor?" question.

If you want to play an elf that wears armor, you shouldn't make a wood elf. Same as if you want to be a dwarf with armor, you shouldn't make a slayer.

It is a cultural flavor thing as much as a rules thing



#8 DrWorm73

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 05:13 PM

I guess I don't agree.  I don't have a deep understanding of the social taboos of Wood Elves, but from what I have read it really depends on the character and their personal path.  My understanding of the lore presented by FFG is that there is no major restriction to Wood Elves and armor, even if there is a cultural bias.  We enforce encumbrance RAW (3rd edition) so it is pretty rare for non Dwarves to be heavily armored anyway, so more than a mail shirt is pretty uncommon.  My Wood Elf character is trying to acquire some special leather armor so that she can no longer be bogged down with metal and still have some defense and soak. 



#9 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 02:11 AM

I think its more the use of metal on their bodies that wood elves disagree with. They are more into natural protection.

I do believe that wood elves are smaller and skinner than High Elves due to changes in diet.

 

Leather, bark etc

 

But if can, check the Warhammer Fantasy Battle books to check if a wood elf can buy metal armour.

 

The mishap for wood elves is likely from their gods for turning back to the High Elf ways sort of thing.



#10 k7e9

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 03:27 AM

I guess I don't agree.  I don't have a deep understanding of the social taboos of Wood Elves, but from what I have read it really depends on the character and their personal path.  My understanding of the lore presented by FFG is that there is no major restriction to Wood Elves and armor, even if there is a cultural bias.  We enforce encumbrance RAW (3rd edition) so it is pretty rare for non Dwarves to be heavily armored anyway, so more than a mail shirt is pretty uncommon.  My Wood Elf character is trying to acquire some special leather armor so that she can no longer be bogged down with metal and still have some defense and soak. 

 

Scale mail (Including Ulthuan Scale) is not a leather armor though, it's made from metal scales. These High Elves are wearing Ulthuan Scale: http://4.bp.blogspot...ster Unit 3.JPG

 

Also, from what I've seen in the Warhammer Fantasy Battles game there are no Wood elves wearing metal armor. Even the "Lord" characters in warhammer fantasy battles only have light armor (light armor beeing equivalent of leather or similar), or even no armor at all. There are no units wearing any heavy armor (i.e. metal armors) at all in the wood elf army. Furthermore it's also mentioned in the WFRP 3ed book that Wood elves wear simple leathers and furs to blend into nature. A scale mail, or other metal armor, would not blend in at all.

 

While there are no explicit rules in WFRP 3ed that forbid wood elves from buying any heavier sort of armor, but as a GM I'd strongly discourage my players from buying an armor which is "culturally" incorrect for your race just because there's no explicit rule against it. It's almost the same as there's no specific rule against or penalty for a thief to wear full plate and scale walls, sneak and hide etc. while waring the full plate if the characters has enough strength.

 

Lastly, Ulthuan Scale is listed as Exotic. the absolutley rarest items. I, as a GM, would deem it almost impossible to come by unless you're actually on Ultuan, and they would probably not even consider selling it to a Wood Elf (or anyone other than a High Elf for that matter).



#11 Carcosa

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:58 PM

@Drworm

There is nothing actually wrong with what you are looking for but IMHO, what you are looking for is probably best represented by a unique magic item. Perhaps if it is a character goal to get this stuff, the Ref can write it into the adventure as a reward? It's not like you are asking for a PC equivalent of Archaeons armour is it? 



#12 DrWorm73

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:06 AM

First of all, you are all sort of mashing up a few ideas (which is understandable) that I may have implied or stated at some point:

1)  The initial question of high elf physiology vs. wood elf physiology.  I ceded that point early on.

 

2)  The question of whether Wood Elves would out-right eschew metal armor.  Since it is the 3rd edition combat rules that made my early wood elf character so vulnerable, it is to those rules that I held to when it came to buying her a mail shirt (note, not heavy armor) that I fully intended to be a temporary thing until I could afford or find some leather that was better than stock.  As soon as FFG prints some kind of expanded elven guide and it strongly implies that it is a serious cultural taboo (like dwarves and horses), I will also follow it.  That said, Hroda left home to avoid being turned into the same xenophobic way watchers that her family favored, so even then it might have made sense as a direction for her to temporary rebel in.

 

3)  I never wanted her to wear Ulthuan Scale, it was more a question of theory.  She is a shifty assassin...the last thing she needs are leaves of metal on her person.



#13 thePREdiger

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 02:32 AM

What does a Wood Elf Wardancer wear during Winter? fur?



#14 Emirikol

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:09 AM

Read the Orion trilogy (if you're into that sort of stuff).  They go over seasonal differences extensively..which makes me wonder..how is woodsy-magic affected in the tropics, where there are no seasons?  Perhaps that's why the slann do so well.


Edited by Emirikol, 23 June 2014 - 10:13 AM.


#15 DrWorm73

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 04:04 PM

Read the Orion trilogy (if you're into that sort of stuff).  They go over seasonal differences extensively..which makes me wonder..how is woodsy-magic affected in the tropics, where there are no seasons?  Perhaps that's why the slann do so well.

 

That brings up another thing, in that Wood Elf characters (per 3rd) really have no magic to speak of besides hedge magic and witchcraft (not even sure about that, don't have the card here), so they don't have access to that to protect them in combat either.  I have no idea what the writings of GW and previous editions of the RPG say, but 3rd gives them little options in this regard. 

 

Like I said in my last post, this is all hypothetical and I never intended to make a WE with Ulthuan Scale, and now I am content not to allow it based on physiology, but I am still not convinced on the larger question of WE PC's and the lighter metal armors in theory.



#16 Emirikol

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 04:08 PM

I don't recall if Herr Arnulf addressed it in Defenders of the Forest (2e download from Liber Fanatica), but in the Orion books there are no wood elf wizards per se.  They are natural magic manipulators, and most of them were there to give the enchantress 'faux magic' as she had lost her ability with magic long ago..and the casters were slowly being consumed by nature (evidently in a very painful way).  It was extremely different from the canon of the High Elves in Warhammer battles, which is simply:  Step 1) spend a human lifetime for each wind to learn each of the winds of magic, step 2) ok, now you can try high magic.



#17 Carcosa

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:55 PM

Drworm

Have you looked into the card "Armoured in Speed"?

Tactic:- When you use an active defence against an attack, your armour soak value against that attack becomes equal to your character rank (regardless of what armour you are wearing)



#18 DrWorm73

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 07:20 PM

No, it must be from a set I don't have yet or I overlooked it.  Probably have to be at rank 3 before it is super useful to me, but I will keep an eye out for it.


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#19 Carcosa

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:10 PM

Yeah, not crash hot at lower ranks, but from R3 onwards it comes into it's own. It is from the Hero's Call supplement if that helps at all........



#20 DrWorm73

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:16 PM

Just unboxed my Hero's Call today.  Hadn't looked at all the cards closely yet.  Still reading the book.


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