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Andira Runehand + Blood Ape's leap attack


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#1 Isilion

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:42 AM

I had a Blood Ape run over Andira and damaging her. The ape did not start nor end his activision adjacent to her. Does the ape take a damage from her ability?

Would it be different if the ape started adjacent? Or ended?



#2 Sixko

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:52 AM

The blood ape performs the attack after it has moved as clearly stated on the leap attack ability.

Andira doesnt suffer damage until the attack is resolves at which time (in your example) the ape is not adjacent to andira.

The ape would take not damage in your example.



#3 Zaltyre

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:54 AM

I had a Blood Ape run over Andira and damaging her. The ape did not start nor end his activision adjacent to her. Does the ape take a damage from her ability?

Would it be different if the ape started adjacent? Or ended?

I would say that even though the assumption is that it is a melee attack where the ape doesn't have reach (and thus would normally need to be performed whilst adjacent,) this is a special action of the Blood Ape's. The attack not performed until the Blood Ape is finished moving. Unless it ends its movement adjacent to Andira, I would say the monster doesn't take damage, since Andira is not suffering damage from an adjacent monster. 


Edited by Zaltyre, 13 June 2014 - 10:54 AM.


#4 Isilion

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:20 AM

Thanks for the clarification.    

I wondered if the attack being resolved after the movement ended was just a technicality to keep things simple and clear. As Zaltyre says the ape does slap her in the face while he leaps past her, which is indeed a melee attack without reach. But I'll keep to the precise letter of the card then.



#5 Zaltyre

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 01:12 PM

Thanks for the clarification.    

I wondered if the attack being resolved after the movement ended was just a technicality to keep things simple and clear. As Zaltyre says the ape does slap her in the face while he leaps past her, which is indeed a melee attack without reach. But I'll keep to the precise letter of the card then.

Indeed. Like so many things, it's a conflict of theme vs. rules, and the preference must be given to the rules unless you wish to change them to create a house rule. If it makes you feel better, he could have been "jumping over" her when he attacked, putting him in her space, and therefore by definition not adjacent, since a space is not adjacent to itself.



#6 griton

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:48 AM

Thanks for the clarification.    

I wondered if the attack being resolved after the movement ended was just a technicality to keep things simple and clear. As Zaltyre says the ape does slap her in the face while he leaps past her, which is indeed a melee attack without reach. But I'll keep to the precise letter of the card then.

Yeah, her ability "Each time you suffer 1 or more (heart) from an adjacent figure" doesn't say anything about melee attacks without reach. It would also apply to ranged attacks from adjacent spaces and other non-attack effects which cause direct damage (probably wouldn't apply against fatigue loss while at full fatigue, but might).

 

That said, I might be reading an older version of her card.



#7 Zaltyre

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:35 PM

 

Thanks for the clarification.    

I wondered if the attack being resolved after the movement ended was just a technicality to keep things simple and clear. As Zaltyre says the ape does slap her in the face while he leaps past her, which is indeed a melee attack without reach. But I'll keep to the precise letter of the card then.

Yeah, her ability "Each time you suffer 1 or more (heart) from an adjacent figure" doesn't say anything about melee attacks without reach. It would also apply to ranged attacks from adjacent spaces and other non-attack effects which cause direct damage (probably wouldn't apply against fatigue loss while at full fatigue, but might).

 

That said, I might be reading an older version of her card.

 

That's the wording of the card- the "thematic idea" is just that since the blood ape is melee, and doesn't have reach, the attack could be assumed to have been made from melee range (i.e, jumping punch/kick.) However, putting aside theme and looking at the wording of the ability, the attack is clearly not made until he is done moving, and will not necessarily be adjacent to her when it is made.



#8 Steve-O

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 05:51 PM

Yeah, her ability "Each time you suffer 1 or more (heart) from an adjacent figure" doesn't say anything about melee attacks without reach. It would also apply to ranged attacks from adjacent spaces and other non-attack effects which cause direct damage (probably wouldn't apply against fatigue loss while at full fatigue, but might).


Just to toss in my two cents, I would be inclined to say Andira's ability would NOT trigger on fatigue loss while Andira is at full fatigue. She didn't suffer Wounds from the adjacent figure, she suffered Fatigue from the adjacent figure, and then that Fatigue was converted into Wounds "internally" because she didn't have any Stamina left to absorb it.

#9 Whitewing

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 07:06 PM

 

Yeah, her ability "Each time you suffer 1 or more (heart) from an adjacent figure" doesn't say anything about melee attacks without reach. It would also apply to ranged attacks from adjacent spaces and other non-attack effects which cause direct damage (probably wouldn't apply against fatigue loss while at full fatigue, but might).


Just to toss in my two cents, I would be inclined to say Andira's ability would NOT trigger on fatigue loss while Andira is at full fatigue. She didn't suffer Wounds from the adjacent figure, she suffered Fatigue from the adjacent figure, and then that Fatigue was converted into Wounds "internally" because she didn't have any Stamina left to absorb it.

 

 

I would agree with this.



#10 Zaltyre

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 06:33 AM

 

Yeah, her ability "Each time you suffer 1 or more (heart) from an adjacent figure" doesn't say anything about melee attacks without reach. It would also apply to ranged attacks from adjacent spaces and other non-attack effects which cause direct damage (probably wouldn't apply against fatigue loss while at full fatigue, but might).


Just to toss in my two cents, I would be inclined to say Andira's ability would NOT trigger on fatigue loss while Andira is at full fatigue. She didn't suffer Wounds from the adjacent figure, she suffered Fatigue from the adjacent figure, and then that Fatigue was converted into Wounds "internally" because she didn't have any Stamina left to absorb it.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment, Steve-O. After explaining that heroes can't willing suffer fatigue greater than stamina to use skills, the rules say,

 

"If any other game effect forces a hero to suffer fatigue in excess of his Stamina, he instead suffers damage equal to the excess fatigue that would have been suffered."

 

The use of the word "instead" in this case leads me to believe that the ability would trigger.

 

1. A game effect (say, Merrick's "Aftershock") requires that Andira suffers a fatigue.

2. Andira has no fatigue left to suffer. As per the rules above, she instead suffers 1 wound.

3. Andira has now suffered 1 wound from an adjacent figure, and therefore, Merrick suffers 1 wound due to her hero ability.

 

I can see your point about the conversion being internal, I just don't know if I agree that means that the wound isn't "from the other figure."  However, my interpretation leads to one or two interesting scenarios. There is a shadowmancer card which forces a hero to suffer fatigue when moving into a space adjacent to another hero. If there were a tired Andira involved when that card was played, this could result in both heroes receiving a wound. 


Edited by Zaltyre, 17 June 2014 - 06:34 AM.


#11 griton

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:11 PM

There is a shadowmancer card which forces a hero to suffer fatigue when moving into a space adjacent to another hero. If there were a tired Andira involved when that card was played, this could result in both heroes receiving a wound. 

In this case, Andira isn't suffering fatigue from the hero she moved adjacent to, she's suffering it from the card and the trigger condition is moving adjacent to another hero. Small, but important difference.


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