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Rebel ace's..... Imps are in trouble


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#21 AdmiralThrawn

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:34 PM

We don't need specific crew, just types of crew that are imperial only. We already have rebel captive, and that's not specific..

 

But I still want me some Thrawn cards


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"Information always matters. Bad information leads to bad tactics. Incomplete information leads to flawed strategy. Both can lead to defeat."


#22 Sithborg

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:37 PM

Please, if you allow Blount to devastate you, then that is on you. If you don't split up, then you deserve the Assault Missile damage. Like I said, the swarm has to adjust to the new tactics. And if you hate turrets, bring some Outmaneuver. Because nothing like shooting at a 0 agility Falcon or Y-wing.


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#23 Hoosteen

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:40 PM

The Z-95 spelled the end of the swarm. I think FFG hates the swarm quite a hit with the way they are knocking its teeth out.

There are plenty of new tools (for both sides) that help deal with Swarms. The Z-95 is not one of them.
Blount with assault missiles? Oh yeah, he's definitely not any threat to a swarm.

So Imps get the Defender and the Phantom, but ...... oh, nevermind.


I think of the Phantom and the Defender kinda like that guy with the huge sword from Indiana Jones;
Very powerful, very quick, and very dexterous... but all it takes is one shot (or, in this case, a turret) to make all that skill and dexterity meaningless.
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#24 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:46 PM

You guys make a great point about the turrets. If FFG is making changes that focus quite obviously on a certain build (swarms) then I don't see why the imps should not get a turret. The swarm is what came natural to imp players out of need. You had to swarm the rebels because they had such powerful ships. If they kill my swarms I would like some turret action.
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#25 Sithborg

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:49 PM

Because more turrets is good for the game? I have never flown the swarm as Imperials, and I have hardly felt handicapped. Hell, in the midst of double Falcon craziness last year, I didn't see the issue. I very nearly killed such a squad, only failing due to my own mistake.



#26 ObiWonka

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:55 PM

 

 

The Z-95 spelled the end of the swarm. I think FFG hates the swarm quite a hit with the way they are knocking its teeth out.

There are plenty of new tools (for both sides) that help deal with Swarms. The Z-95 is not one of them.
Blount with assault missiles? Oh yeah, he's definitely not any threat to a swarm.

One specific ship with one specific piece of ordnance which works exactly one time in a given game and does exactly one damage - not enough to kill anything - to each ship your opponent hasn't yet moved out of the way...yes, that is the death of the Swarm forever.


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Rebel: 2x A-Wing, 2x B-Wing, 1x E-Wing, 2x HWK-290, 4x X-Wing, 2x Y-Wing, 1x YT-1300, 1x Z-95 Headhunter

Imperial: 1x Firespray-31, 1x Lambda Shuttle, 1x TIE Defender, 6x TIE Fighter, 1x TIE Advanced, 2x TIE Bomber, 6x TIE Interceptor, 1x TIE Phantom

BEARFACE


#27 AdmiralThrawn

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:56 PM

I think of the Phantom and the Defender kinda like that guy with the huge sword from Indiana Jones;
Very powerful, very quick, and very dexterous... but all it takes is one shot (or, in this case, a turret) to make all that skill and dexterity meaningless.

 

Ironically the one who shot him will also be shooting down all the phantoms.

 

First


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"Information always matters. Bad information leads to bad tactics. Incomplete information leads to flawed strategy. Both can lead to defeat."


#28 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:58 PM

I think turrets would be great fun for the imperials and I don't really understand why they have made them rebel only so far.

#29 AdmiralThrawn

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:59 PM

Tony Stark- " yes,but we have a hulk"

Star%20Wars%20X-Wing%20TIE%20Phantom%20E

 

Yes we do


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"Information always matters. Bad information leads to bad tactics. Incomplete information leads to flawed strategy. Both can lead to defeat."


#30 AdmiralThrawn

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:01 PM

I think turrets would be great fun for the imperials and I don't really understand why they have made them rebel only so far.

Turrets, especially the falcons primary make a game about maneuverability into a game about who rolls better dice. Ill take my super maneuverable Phantoms and interceptors over a turret any day. cooler and more fun.


Edited by AdmiralThrawn, 08 June 2014 - 09:02 PM.

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"Information always matters. Bad information leads to bad tactics. Incomplete information leads to flawed strategy. Both can lead to defeat."


#31 Krynn007

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:06 PM

Umm, you do realize that there is ways to modify dice rolls?
There is more to it than just rolling dice
Rebels4 xwing, 2 awings, 2 bwings,1 ywing, 1 Falcon, 1hwk, 1 ewing, 2 z95, 1 transport, 1 Tantive,
Imperials
6 tie/ft, 2 squints, 1 aces, 4 bombers, 1 tie adv, 1 shuttle, 2 Firespray, 2 phantom, 1 tie defender

#32 Hoosteen

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:10 PM

The Z-95 spelled the end of the swarm. I think FFG hates the swarm quite a hit with the way they are knocking its teeth out.

There are plenty of new tools (for both sides) that help deal with Swarms. The Z-95 is not one of them.
Blount with assault missiles? Oh yeah, he's definitely not any threat to a swarm.
One specific ship with one specific piece of ordnance which works exactly one time in a given game and does exactly one damage - not enough to kill anything - to each ship your opponent hasn't yet moved out of the way...yes, that is the death of the Swarm forever.
Rofl. Yes, because I said that Blount was the death to the swarm forever. :rollseyes:
You said that the Z-95 was not a tool to deal with the swarm. Having a ship that is guaranteed to damage multiple ships in a swarm by 1/3rd of their HP... I'd say that's a fairly useful tool.

I would also like to point out that (most) Imperial players aren't "complaining" with a "THIS ISN'T FAIR" attitude. I know for myself, I'm not "whining that Imperials are at a disadvantage."
We just want more options! I want to be able to have a bunch of options, or crew-members that make flying Imperial special.
When I put gunner on my Firespray, it's cool. But knowing that he can go on the YT-1300 as well makes gunner... kind of a traitor.
Rebels have a bunch of Rebel-only cards that (normally) help each other out. As much as I would like this, I would be pretty satisfied with Imperial-only cards that related more toward the Imperial attitude of brutality, or even sacrifice.

#33 Gundog8324

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:14 PM

Wait for proton rockets to be leaked, for all we know they could be so devastating for large ships it may scare some Falcons back to their nest's.  Also if you are scared of Falcons run bombers, Who cares about a turret when you maneuver like 70's VW Van and have 6 Hull, load up with some missiles/torps and go big game hunting think Epic Play but the prize is a bit smaller and can shoot back



#34 AdmiralThrawn

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:22 PM

Umm, you do realize that there is ways to modify dice rolls?
There is more to it than just rolling dice

im not saying the entire game is literally just about throwing the dice down, im saying I would rather a space starfighter game have me getting hits by maneuvering well more than by having a the ability to modify dice.


"Information always matters. Bad information leads to bad tactics. Incomplete information leads to flawed strategy. Both can lead to defeat."


#35 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:29 PM

Not only is Lt. Blount very damaging to a swarm the munitions fail safe means that assault missiles will be fired till they work. Three of those will be devastating to a swarm. I predict that when wave 4 and Rebel aces arrive that the current swarm meta is forever gone from competitive play. It will be too dangerous to run on the chance you hit a Munitions fail safe assault missile squad.

#36 ObiWonka

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:34 PM

 

 

 

 

The Z-95 spelled the end of the swarm. I think FFG hates the swarm quite a hit with the way they are knocking its teeth out.

There are plenty of new tools (for both sides) that help deal with Swarms. The Z-95 is not one of them.
Blount with assault missiles? Oh yeah, he's definitely not any threat to a swarm.
One specific ship with one specific piece of ordnance which works exactly one time in a given game and does exactly one damage - not enough to kill anything - to each ship your opponent hasn't yet moved out of the way...yes, that is the death of the Swarm forever.
Rofl. Yes, because I said that Blount was the death to the swarm forever. :rollseyes:
You said that the Z-95 was not a tool to deal with the swarm. Having a ship that is guaranteed to damage multiple ships in a swarm by 1/3rd of their HP... I'd say that's a fairly useful tool.

I would also like to point out that (most) Imperial players aren't "complaining" with a "THIS ISN'T FAIR" attitude. I know for myself, I'm not "whining that Imperials are at a disadvantage."
We just want more options! I want to be able to have a bunch of options, or crew-members that make flying Imperial special.
When I put gunner on my Firespray, it's cool. But knowing that he can go on the YT-1300 as well makes gunner... kind of a traitor.
Rebels have a bunch of Rebel-only cards that (normally) help each other out. As much as I would like this, I would be pretty satisfied with Imperial-only cards that related more toward the Imperial attitude of brutality, or even sacrifice.

 

You said Blount was a tool for dealing with Swarms and I agree. The poster I was originally responding to said the Z-95 in general was the end of the Swarm. There's a difference between one pilot being useful and all ships of a kind being death to an archetype.

 

As for more options for the Imperial side, I agree with that, too. Rebels have so many ways to share actions and pass tokens and be generally more efficient. Imperials have Howlrunner and Jonus...and a couple rarely-if-ever-used Lambda pilots? Vader with Squad Leader?? Not to mention all the Rebel-only cards, including Crew with those words as well as Astromechs and Turrets (though to be fair there are more Bombs than Turrets and only Imps get Bombs right now). So yes, I would like to see more Imperial options as well.

 

That said, I don't think the upcoming meta will be an anti-Swarm meta or a high PS bid meta. I think it will be an anything-goes meta. More of it may seem to be on the Rebel side, but there is so much variety that planning to beat one specific type of build will no longer work. You've brought all kinds of tools to beat Swarms? Here's a Phantom sitting across from you. Opponent running 3 tooled-up ships? Good thing you're still playing the Swarm. Etc. Versatility will be key, both in list-building and on-the-fly strategy adjustment. I'm really looking forward to the new anything-goes meta. :)


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Rebel: 2x A-Wing, 2x B-Wing, 1x E-Wing, 2x HWK-290, 4x X-Wing, 2x Y-Wing, 1x YT-1300, 1x Z-95 Headhunter

Imperial: 1x Firespray-31, 1x Lambda Shuttle, 1x TIE Defender, 6x TIE Fighter, 1x TIE Advanced, 2x TIE Bomber, 6x TIE Interceptor, 1x TIE Phantom

BEARFACE


#37 ObiWonka

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:37 PM

Not only is Lt. Blount very damaging to a swarm the munitions fail safe means that assault missiles will be fired till they work. Three of those will be devastating to a swarm. I predict that when wave 4 and Rebel aces arrive that the current swarm meta is forever gone from competitive play. It will be too dangerous to run on the chance you hit a Munitions fail safe assault missile squad.

I hope you don't mean Munitions Failsafe on Blount, because that doesn't work that way. And yes, theoretically, Failsafe will keep your Assault Missiles around until they hit. Meanwhile, every time you miss the Swarm throws 14+ dice at you, with re-rolls. How many misses do you think you can afford under that kind of fire?


Rebel: 2x A-Wing, 2x B-Wing, 1x E-Wing, 2x HWK-290, 4x X-Wing, 2x Y-Wing, 1x YT-1300, 1x Z-95 Headhunter

Imperial: 1x Firespray-31, 1x Lambda Shuttle, 1x TIE Defender, 6x TIE Fighter, 1x TIE Advanced, 2x TIE Bomber, 6x TIE Interceptor, 1x TIE Phantom

BEARFACE


#38 iPeregrine

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:39 PM

Three of those will be devastating to a swarm.


And taking three assault missile Z-95s is going to be suicide against everything but a swarm list. That's well over half your points spent on ships which are mediocre at best against Falcons/Firesprays, XXBB, Phantoms, etc. And you just can't afford to do that against an unknown opponent. The only swarm counter you're likely to face with any relevant frequency is Blount, and that's only a single point of splash damage. If you let the hypothetical "worst opponent" lists scare you out of playing a list, regardless of the fact that they are likely to be extremely rare, then you're badly over-reacting and don't really understand how the metagame works.

#39 Stelar 7

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:00 PM

I would like to see meta cards. Imagine a card like "Bothan misinformation" that let you choose the placement of one of your oponent's ships. (Not direction, just placement). The Empire should feel like the big spooky near to omnipresent government from hell. With the balance of the games we don't always get that, though I compensate with clever smack talk.

As to unique Empire only, remember how much of the rebel stuff was stolen or defecting imperial stuff. I like the mass produced feel of the imps. I love having the only ps 6 generic ships. I fly both but I think I am leaning Imperial, and Indin't have my defenders or phantoms yet.
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Rebel scum: 5 X-Wings, 4 Y-Wings, 3 A-Wings, 3 B-Wings, 2 Hawks, 1Falcon, 2 E-Wings, 4 Z-95 1 Transport.

Imperial cannon fodder: 2 Phantoms, 2 Defenders, 7 Tie Fighters, 7 Interceptors, 3 Bombers, 2 Lambdas, 3 Firesprays, 1 Vader, er Tie Advanced

#40 Aminar

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:21 PM

In regular play Imperials have
6 Tie pilots and 3 generics
7 Interceptor Pilots and 4 Generics
2 Advanced pilots and 2 generics
3 Firespray pilots and 1 Generic
3 Shuttle Pilots and 1 Generic
2 Bomber Pilots and 2 Generics
23 pilots, 13 generics

Rebels have
8 X-Wing Pilots and 2 Generics
2 Y-wings and 2 Generics
2 A-Wing Pilots and 2 Generics with 2 more pilots in the pipe
3 YT pilots and 1 Generic
2 B-Wing Pilots and 2 Generics with 2 more pilots in the pipe
3 hawk pilots and 1 generic
20 Pilots+4 10 generics.
The new wave does not add any difference to the numbers as each ship has 2 named pilots and 2 generics.
That means rebels have a bunch of nifty crew options that go on 2 ships, one of which nobody uses, despite it being awesome(the Hawk.) Eventually the B-Wing will also get a crew slot, at a pretty extreme cost(mod slot and one point+the cost of the crew)
The Imperials have more pilots, and while for a time after rebel aces they will have 1 Less named pilot, they are down at least one if not two Epic ships and the fighter that will come with one or the other. They have 3 Crew bearing ships, all of which are at the top of their usefullness list. They have less upgrade slots on average(mainly because Ties and Interceptors have nothing but EPTs, but that's not a bad thing. Squads will less upgrades and more ships are better.
Imperials have options too. Amazing options. Yes, they don't combo as well. That's good. It keeps them balanced.
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