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Firearms in Melee


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#1 Gurkhal

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:52 AM

I've got a KT in melee with a horde of mutated freaks and my question is where the rules are found regarding the use of bolters, heavy bolters and flamers to fire on enemies who are attacking them in melee already. Can they do this or do they need to change to melee weapons?



#2 ak-73

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:20 AM

Can only shoot pistol weapons in melee. Look at page 140. Smite and Avenger work in melee though, according to an official forum response.

 

If you are not in melee and fire at someone in melee, you get -20. See page 247 and the box on page 248.

 

Alex


Edited by ak-73, 08 June 2014 - 11:22 AM.

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#3 Gurkhal

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:23 AM

The blessings of the Emperor upon you. :)



#4 Kshatriya

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:08 PM

If you are not in melee and fire at someone in melee, you get -20. See page 247 and the box on page 248.

 

Unless you have Target Acquisition. 



#5 Adeptus-B

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:46 PM

-And don't forget that you don't get the normal ranged attack bonuses for Point Blank Range if you use a Pistol in melee.

 

If you are stuck in melee while armed with a Basic/Heavy Ranged weapon, your choices are to use it as an Improvised Weapon (not recommended), Quick Draw a melee weapon (even a knife is an improvement), or spend a Half Action to step out of melee (usually drawing a free attack in the process) and then firing at Point Blank Range- which might be worth risking the attack depending on the weapon you are armed with.



#6 ak-73

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:54 PM

Speaking of which, does the free move while full-auto bursting take place after firing or before? If after you can shoot and move into full cover, if before you can step out of CC and shoot.

 

Alex


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#7 computertrucker

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 09:25 AM

I allow parry's to be made against opponents in melee with someone shooting a pistol. The whole hey point that thing somewhere else while pushing the pistol to the side makes sense to me.

Edited by computertrucker, 12 June 2014 - 10:08 AM.

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#8 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 06:43 AM

I allow parry's to be made against opponents in melee with someone shooting a pistol. The whole hey point that thing somewhere else while pushing the pistol to the side makes sense to me.

You should see how trained operators fire in melee, you'd change your mind

#9 computertrucker

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 05:52 AM

I was a 19D CAV Scout in the army. I know full well how a trained operator would respond, and firing a hand weapon or weapon period while engaged in close combat is not something easily or for that matter safely done. So yes allowing someone to parry ie push the weapon away while it's being used makes perfect sense.
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#10 computertrucker

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 05:57 AM

Against a trained combatant if you start firing off rounds during the scuffle and chaos of a melee engagement your just as likely to have a friendly fire accident as you are hit the enemy your engaging. There is a reason the military (US at least) still provide bayonet and unarmed combat training. Well at least for combat arms MOSs they do.
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#11 ak-73

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 09:24 AM

You can't even parry a knife with bare hands in 40K RP. Just use a Dodge.

 

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#12 computertrucker

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:22 AM

I would never attempt to parry a blade... I would though move in to parry the arm that's wielding it.
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#13 ak-73

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 02:17 PM

You're not wearing Astartes Power Armour, I assume. :P

 

Alex


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#14 Lord Master Igneus

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:16 AM

Don't forget that if your dude is from the Marines Errant he can get a Naval Boltgun which is a bolter with -8 to its clip capacity but it can be fired in melee combat like a pistol.

 

I've read waaaay too much stuff to know this.



#15 Dr. Quinn

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 02:05 PM

Speaking of which, does the free move while full-auto bursting take place after firing or before? If after you can shoot and move into full cover, if before you can step out of CC and shoot.

 

Alex

 

For what it's worth, my interpretation has always been that it happens *while* firing.  Think old school gangster movies, where they're slowly advancing while laying down as much fire as the tommy gun will put out.  Note that you can't take the full auto burst action while engaged in melee, so that's out (unless of course you have suspensors or are otherwise auto stabilized and can thus use the half action to move out of melee then another half action for the burst, but that's a different thing entirely).  Moving into full cover seems questionable to me as well- since you are presumably moving during the entirety of that burst, it would seem to me that at least a shot or two would be blocked then by your cover.  However, there is absolutely nothing in RAW preventing it (or preventing you from moving back and forth across a door, firing on full auto while in front of the door and returning to full cover), and if you ended behind half cover, there is no question you could drop prone as a free action and end up fully covered, so it would be hard to argue that it's mechanically disallowed.  And, of course, it's not like your opponents are without recourse in that kind of situation, as overwatch, delayed actions, grenades or blast weapons, template weapons, and psychic powers will all put an end to that kind of foolishness.






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