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countering the phantom


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#21 Chumbalaya

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:44 AM

Hitting those Phantoms before they recloak will probably be your best bet.  Echo with VI is PS8, which leaves a good amount of stuff that can swing before him. 

 

Beyond that, just chucking dice at them will probably work.  Think of it like a Stealth Device Interceptor, they'll flub a roll eventually and Phantoms aren't exactly hardy.


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#22 Aminar

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:47 AM

Hitting those Phantoms before they recloak will probably be your best bet.  Echo with VI is PS8, which leaves a good amount of stuff that can swing before him. 
 
Beyond that, just chucking dice at them will probably work.  Think of it like a Stealth Device Interceptor, they'll flub a roll eventually and Phantoms aren't exactly hardy.

While true, flubbing a roll is less likely on Whisper, who can build up 3 focus a turn with the right setup. Keeps her defense rolls good far far longer.

#23 Krynn007

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:52 AM

Yup.
Plus don't forget. The dice works both ways.
With the Phantom sure you may get some shots in, but can you focus fire? If only one or two ships can shoot it, are you going to kill it?
Putting a Recon Specialist can really help it survive.
It only has one less hp over a xwing, and they both roll 2 evades (when decloak)

I think if it's equipped well, flown right, can be very hard to kill

Rebels

4 xwing, 2 awings, 2 bwings,1 ywing, 1 Falcon, 1hwk, 1 ewing, 2 z95, 1 transport, 1 Tantive,

Imperials

6 tie/ft, 2 squints, 1 aces, 2 bombers, 1 tie adv, 1 shuttle, 1 Firespray, 2 phantom, 1 tie defender


#24 phild0

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:56 AM

I think the Phantom will be scared to see an Engine + HLC loaded Defender across the table, preferably the named pilots with VI. It isn't hard to get through 4 defense when you have 4 attack dice. And with VI, you can still reposition after the Phantom has moved.

Also a general tip from my first few experiences, if a Phantom has ACD and you have a repositioning action, it is in your favor to give the Phantom initiative, when you have equal PS, that is. Having a shot at 4 agility is still better than no shot at all. Also, they might spend their focus on offense, which makes 4 agility much less useful.

In general, 4 agility isn't as scary as the free repositioning you get every turn with ACD.

#25 Krynn007

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:05 AM

I cane speak for Whisper but echo is very hard to shot.
She stays out of archs like a pro.
Having V.I on her doesn't just help her with shooting.
It also helps to see where your opponent is going to be.
Unless she is up against a squad that is all ps 8+ once she sees where one or two are going, it's easy to assume whee the rest will go. So even if my opponent had another ship or two that is going to move last, I can safely assume what he is doing.
And if he is splitting up his forces, then all the better imo.

Rebels

4 xwing, 2 awings, 2 bwings,1 ywing, 1 Falcon, 1hwk, 1 ewing, 2 z95, 1 transport, 1 Tantive,

Imperials

6 tie/ft, 2 squints, 1 aces, 2 bombers, 1 tie adv, 1 shuttle, 1 Firespray, 2 phantom, 1 tie defender


#26 Black Knight Leader

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:23 AM

so i had my first experience with the phantom (hyper mobile Echo with navigator)yesterday (thanks Sable!). other than locking it up with ions or stresses it seems like the YT is the only true counter to it.

thoughts?

 

Special missions use prototype TIE Interceptor, or Defender or Shuttle or Slave 1, and use +2 attack dice base OR two full attacks per turn base.

 

Norm play use Proton Bombs or prox mines On TIE Bombers or Slave 1 type ships.

 

In the future if TIE Cruise missiles come out use those above all else. 


May the Holy Trinity be with you and give you peace.


#27 Englishpete

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:41 AM

Admittedly, I have flown against this only once, but it I was using a squad I am very familiar with, 2 BH with Gunner and Ion Cannons and Howlrunner. Even with the arcs on the BH's it was virtually impossible to get Echo in a fire arc. I fly Interceptors A LOT as well, so I have very good special awareness. The key to taking a Phantom will be more ships, not a few high PS ones.

 

Maybe a PS 9 Kath, with Engine Upgrade may have been able to, but I am not convinced. I really do not like the chances of getting a bomb off near them. Fel might be able to match Echo as may Vader, but everything else simply cannot move quickly enough to counter them.

 

Turrets are a no brainer really, but everyone else is in for a steep and painful learning curve.


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#28 Krynn007

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:49 AM

But also what type of ships are being flown with Echo?
I've come up with some lists that seem to do pretty well. Though I've only flown against rebel ships, but I mean you cab get two shuttles a tie, a mini swarm. Firespray with a tie, or two Phantoms with a mini swarm

Rebels

4 xwing, 2 awings, 2 bwings,1 ywing, 1 Falcon, 1hwk, 1 ewing, 2 z95, 1 transport, 1 Tantive,

Imperials

6 tie/ft, 2 squints, 1 aces, 2 bombers, 1 tie adv, 1 shuttle, 1 Firespray, 2 phantom, 1 tie defender


#29 Aminar

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:14 PM

Admittedly, I have flown against this only once, but it I was using a squad I am very familiar with, 2 BH with Gunner and Ion Cannons and Howlrunner. Even with the arcs on the BH's it was virtually impossible to get Echo in a fire arc. I fly Interceptors A LOT as well, so I have very good special awareness. The key to taking a Phantom will be more ships, not a few high PS ones.
 
Maybe a PS 9 Kath, with Engine Upgrade may have been able to, but I am not convinced. I really do not like the chances of getting a bomb off near them. Fel might be able to match Echo as may Vader, but everything else simply cannot move quickly enough to counter them.
 
Turrets are a no brainer really, but everyone else is in for a steep and painful learning curve.

I think what we're really looking at is the need for 1 High pilot skill agile ship or support ship dedicated to Phantom duty. Any high PS pilot with Vet instincts and barrel roll or boost can probably catch a Phantom.
High PS firesprays with boost or Navigator stand a good chance. In the end the Phantom can't arc dance perfectly, and once it messes up and takes shots at 2 agility it's probably done.

#30 phild0

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:46 PM

That's what I'm thinking as well. With its low base defenses, only need a couple shots with high PS ship with some sort of reposition action ability. Albeit, your high PS ship needs to survive to at least get 2 shots off, possibly more.

Also, with the popularity of the Phantom, it might be useful to build your own Phantom to counter a mirror match :P. Really makes me question whether I should ever run a low PS Phantom. Also shows the importance of Stygium Particle Accelerator on the low PS ones. Cant easily get 1 shot if you have an evade token.

Blocking up spots to decloak isn't horrible either. If the Phantom goes in the rocks, it isn't all that difficult to force 1 decloak direction, even on Echo. The Phantom may just opt to stay cloaked, which isn't horrible.




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