Jump to content



Photo

Pesky Crit`ers


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Osoroshii

Osoroshii

    龍神

  • Members
  • 1,081 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:27 AM

In my exploration of Wave 4 builds I tried a couple games with this build.

Etahn A'baht (32)
Biggs Darklighter (25)
Rookie Pilot (21)
Rookie Pilot (21)

Nothing sexy or fancy here. The build comes in at 99pts with next to no room to add upgrades. Etahn is the star of the squad with his ability to upgrade hits to crits. Biggs hangs around to give a little extra life to Etahn and the Rookies benifit from the upgraded shots.

I've played it Vs the 4 ship rebel builds and it has done well. During these test I never got the feeling I was way in front in the matches but the crits and their effect had a big impact on the outcome of the matches. In the 3 games Etahn survived until the match was over. Next in my testing, I'm going to line this up Vs the expected Imperial squads. It should do well against the Swarm of Ties as when ships hit, it's usually critical hits. The Phantom builds could pose a problem for this build as your moving at 5 and 2. What are your thoughts?

#2 Nickotine42

Nickotine42

    Member

  • Members
  • 285 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:39 AM

Solid and simple so it will probably win worlds lol. I think Etahn is a star. Him and Cracken will be used a lot in my future list. You could also do the whole green sq with opportunist and refit for more maneuverability. But rookies are always solid.

Edited by Nickotine42, 08 June 2014 - 07:40 AM.

  • quasistellar likes this

#3 Osoroshii

Osoroshii

    龍神

  • Members
  • 1,081 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:01 AM

I'm a big fan of formation flying. The dial of the E-Wing is very similar to the X-Wing. That makes it less of a strain to keep the squad together. However this formation flying will be the death of it Vs the Phantoms. I flew Etahn in the finals at Assault at Imdaar and was very impressed by his ability.

#4 cert13

cert13

    Member

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:19 AM

Am I reading the card wrong, I thought the ability only applied to Etahn to change the hits to crits not the whole squad.


Wedge Antilles: The only character from the original series that appears in all three movies, has only one costume, and still manages to help destroy TWO Death Stars.

 


#5 Osoroshii

Osoroshii

    龍神

  • Members
  • 1,081 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:25 AM

Am I reading the card wrong, I thought the ability only applied to Etahn to change the hits to crits not the whole squad.


And that is why he is worth the points!

#6 Aminar

Aminar

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,089 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:28 AM

Am I reading the card wrong, I thought the ability only applied to Etahn to change the hits to crits not the whole squad.

Etahn applies to the squad.
I would think adding Cracken with a 2 point support EPT. Over a rookie. It could create as much damage as you lose.

#7 Engine25

Engine25

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,183 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:58 AM

In my exploration of Wave 4 builds I tried a couple games with this build.

Etahn A'baht (32)
Biggs Darklighter (25)
Rookie Pilot (21)
Rookie Pilot (21)

Nothing sexy or fancy here. The build comes in at 99pts with next to no room to add upgrades. Etahn is the star of the squad with his ability to upgrade hits to crits. Biggs hangs around to give a little extra life to Etahn and the Rookies benifit from the upgraded shots.

I've played it Vs the 4 ship rebel builds and it has done well. During these test I never got the feeling I was way in front in the matches but the crits and their effect had a big impact on the outcome of the matches. In the 3 games Etahn survived until the match was over. Next in my testing, I'm going to line this up Vs the expected Imperial squads. It should do well against the Swarm of Ties as when ships hit, it's usually critical hits. The Phantom builds could pose a problem for this build as your moving at 5 and 2. What are your thoughts?

 

 

 

Am I reading the card wrong, I thought the ability only applied to Etahn to change the hits to crits not the whole squad.

Etahn applies to the squad.
I would think adding Cracken with a 2 point support EPT. Over a rookie. It could create as much damage as you lose.

 

 
Any ship who attacks a ship that is inside his Firing Arc, so his ability works on his attacks and any ships that attack a ship that he can see.
 
I agree that Cracken may be of some use here.  I also think that you could swap out one of the Rookies for a Blue Squadron B-wing, as the original squad costs 99 points.  Could add a little durability while keeping up the firepower.

Just another stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking Nerf-Herder bidding you, Fly Casual.

#8 LordVogl

LordVogl

    Member

  • Members
  • 32 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:25 AM

Etahn + 4 protos = 100pts

 

Movement, blocking and crits. Could be very annoying. You can kit out Etahn a bit after rebel aces becomes available and a-wings become cheaper. 


Edited by LordVogl, 08 June 2014 - 10:35 AM.


#9 Osoroshii

Osoroshii

    龍神

  • Members
  • 1,081 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:25 AM

E'tahn + 4 protos = 100pts

Movement, blocking and crits. Could be very annoying. You can kit out E'tahn a bit after rebel aces becomes available and a-wings become cheaper.

Prototype Pilot (17)
Prototype Pilot (17)
Prototype Pilot (17)
Prototype Pilot (17)
Etahn A'baht (32)

One thing I always look at when building a squad is it's EDO (Expected Damage Output). So by taking 4 A-Wings we are rolling 11 attack dice spread out between 5 shots. With the 4 ship build each have 3 making it 12 spread out over 4 shots. So immediately I take notice we are rolling less dice. Now consider the number of shots Vs a ship. 5 attack Vs a tie will see 11attack dice Vs 15 defense. If all these ships focus and fire at an unfocused tie your EDO is 3.65. Now you have to consider the effect of the Crits. That does sway it to the offense for a little better EDO. How does the 4 ship build do Vs that Tie. They come in at EDO 4.84. A full point of damage better then the A-Wings. The A-Wings survive the return fire better then the X's but the enemy can focus down Etahn taking your advantage away.

The numbers just don't seem to be impressive with the A's over the X's. Although the difference is not night and day, I'll put the squad on the table and see how it performs.

Edited by Osoroshii, 08 June 2014 - 10:26 AM.


#10 Aminar

Aminar

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,089 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:32 AM

E'tahn + 4 protos = 100pts
Movement, blocking and crits. Could be very annoying. You can kit out E'tahn a bit after rebel aces becomes available and a-wings become cheaper.

Prototype Pilot (17)
Prototype Pilot (17)
Prototype Pilot (17)
Prototype Pilot (17)
Etahn A'baht (32)
One thing I always look at when building a squad is it's EDO (Expected Damage Output). So by taking 4 A-Wings we are rolling 11 attack dice spread out between 5 shots. With the 4 ship build each have 3 making it 12 spread out over 4 shots. So immediately I take notice we are rolling less dice. Now consider the number of shots Vs a ship. 5 attack Vs a tie will see 11attack dice Vs 15 defense. If all these ships focus and fire at an unfocused tie your EDO is 3.65. Now you have to consider the effect of the Crits. That does sway it to the offense for a little better EDO. How does the 4 ship build do Vs that Tie. They come in at EDO 4.84. A full point of damage better then the A-Wings. The A-Wings survive the return fire better then the X's but the enemy can focus down Etahn taking your advantage away.
The numbers just don't seem to be impressive with the A's over the X's. Although the difference is not night and day, I'll put the squad on the table and see how it performs.
The list gets a bit better if you aim for a few A-Wings with Chaardan as Flankers and Z-95s. Not sure what the optimum build is, but I' try two GSP's with Predator, Push, or Outmanuever and 4 Z-95s. Should come to 100.
1 GSP my mental math was way off.

Edited by Aminar, 08 June 2014 - 10:39 AM.


#11 Ribann

Ribann

    Member

  • Members
  • 496 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:45 AM

Tried out the OP's list on Vassal this morning and got eaten for breakfast by:

 

Chewbacca+Predator+EU+Luke+MF Title

Blue Squadron Pilot

Rookie Pilot

 

It's funny how you go to test a list and you encounter something that will counter what you intend to to.

 

Biggs died so fast to Chewie. Etain crashed and burned and did nothing for crits against Chewie. Rookies were last to go.

 

RIP OP's list in my case.


  • Osoroshii likes this

#12 Aminar

Aminar

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,089 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:48 AM

Tried out the OP's list on Vassal this morning and got eaten for breakfast by:
 
Chewbacca+Predator+EU+Luke+MF Title
Blue Squadron Pilot
Rookie Pilot
 
It's funny how you go to test a list and you encounter something that will counter what you intend to to.
 
Biggs died so fast to Chewie. Etain crashed and burned and did nothing for crits against Chewie. Rookies were last to go.
 
RIP OP's list in my case.

Yeah, Chewie laughs at Etahn. That doesn't make this a bad list. But a Chewi weakness is a pretty bad thing, considering he's one of the best, if not the best ship in the game.

#13 swimmingordy

swimmingordy

    Member

  • Members
  • 592 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:58 AM

What about using Z95's instead of X wings? As long as you're flying form, I would go with EXZZZ:
Etahn
PTL R2 (to successfully use all those actions!)
Biggs
Hull Upgrade
Bandit x3

100 points. 3 more hull points than OP, same attack dice, two more evade dice and more Etahn survivability with his ability to PTL, focus evade once Biggs is down.

Thoughts? Once could also do EZZZZZ, Etahn, PTL, R2 Hull, Bandit x4. In Biggs but more attack dice, more defense dice, more evade dice. You just keep Etahn in the back and keep him alive and that could be successful.

#14 Wraithdt

Wraithdt

    Member

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:27 AM

 

Tried out the OP's list on Vassal this morning and got eaten for breakfast by:
 
Chewbacca+Predator+EU+Luke+MF Title
Blue Squadron Pilot
Rookie Pilot
 
It's funny how you go to test a list and you encounter something that will counter what you intend to to.
 
Biggs died so fast to Chewie. Etain crashed and burned and did nothing for crits against Chewie. Rookies were last to go.
 
RIP OP's list in my case.

Yeah, Chewie laughs at Etahn. That doesn't make this a bad list. But a Chewi weakness is a pretty bad thing, considering he's one of the best, if not the best ship in the game.

 

Perhaps this variation maybe better against Chewie:-

 

Etahn + PTL + Adv Sen + R2

Tarn Mison + R7 + Hull

Rookie Pilot

Bandit Sqd Pilot

 

Still can't escape Chewie's turrets but Etahn and Tarn can tank up against him hence may survive long enough to 'chew' up the wookiee.



#15 Osoroshii

Osoroshii

    龍神

  • Members
  • 1,081 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:46 AM

Tried out the OP's list on Vassal this morning and got eaten for breakfast by:
 
Chewbacca+Predator+EU+Luke+MF Title
Blue Squadron Pilot
Rookie Pilot
 
It's funny how you go to test a list and you encounter something that will counter what you intend to to.
 
Biggs died so fast to Chewie. Etain crashed and burned and did nothing for crits against Chewie. Rookies were last to go.
 
RIP OP's list in my case.


Before tossing on the last shovel of dirt to bury the squad give it a few tries. It is unfortunate you ran right into the hard counter of the Pesky Crit'ers list. One game rarely ever tells the whole story of the viability of a squad. There are a few factors to consider, are you flying the list to its full potential, did the dice roll way above a average or below? If you played the match 5 times does it prove unwinable. If that match is unwinable how often does that squad show in the meta game?

#16 Ribann

Ribann

    Member

  • Members
  • 496 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:56 PM

 

Tried out the OP's list on Vassal this morning and got eaten for breakfast by:
 
Chewbacca+Predator+EU+Luke+MF Title
Blue Squadron Pilot
Rookie Pilot
 
It's funny how you go to test a list and you encounter something that will counter what you intend to to.
 
Biggs died so fast to Chewie. Etain crashed and burned and did nothing for crits against Chewie. Rookies were last to go.
 
RIP OP's list in my case.


Before tossing on the last shovel of dirt to bury the squad give it a few tries. It is unfortunate you ran right into the hard counter of the Pesky Crit'ers list. One game rarely ever tells the whole story of the viability of a squad. There are a few factors to consider, are you flying the list to its full potential, did the dice roll way above a average or below? If you played the match 5 times does it prove unwinable. If that match is unwinable how often does that squad show in the meta game?

 

 

I was obviously exaggerating the RIP part about your list.

 

I kept them all in a box formation, Biggs in the back, Etahn in the front to maximize arc spread. Dice were about average on both sides. Even my opponent said I flew well and dice exchanges were pretty even. I think I had Chewie down to about 5 hull, B-wing down to 2 hull, and Rookie was full health before it was game over.

 

Engine upgrade on Chewy really let him get out of the way of some arcs.



#17 MajorJuggler

MajorJuggler

    MathWinger

  • Members
  • 2,224 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:12 PM

Some MathWing and TheoryCrafting points:

  1. Don't use A-wings until they have Refit.
  2. Z-95's have the best jousting value in the game (slightly better than a naked TIE Fighter). They are only surpassed by Howlrunner supported TIEs and Lambda Shuttles (ignoring their dial).
  3. Per cost, Z-95s have almost as much damage output as X-wings, even against 3 agility targets like TIE swarms. But the Z-95s collectively have much more durability than the X-wings.
  4. Etahn's buff is multiplicative with the number of ships used.
  5. Related to all the points above, the best use of Etahn is with many cost effective jousting ships, which is the Z-95 and the Refit A-wing.

So the optimal squad to take advantage of Etahn's ability is this:

 

92 points

Etahn (32)

5x Bandit Squadron (60)

 

This squad will certainly have a better jousting value than any currently possible 5-ship Rebel build. (See below for relative efficiency numbers for various ships.) The weak spot is actually the E-wing, but Etahn's crit ability should make up for it, especially against unshielded TIEs. So, this squad has 8 points left to spend. Options include:

  • Upgrading some Z-95s to A-wings (3 points each)
  • PS bid (5 points to go from PS2 to PS4)
  • Beefing up Etahn. Shield Upgrade + R2-D2 comes to mind as an obvious defensive example, since he will likely be priority target #1 in this squad.

Math summary here:

http://community.fan...-5#entry1111620

 

Relevant Snippet:

 

All costs and efficiency are based on their equivalent PS1 cost. min, std. and max columns are to cover various meta environments, which changes the ship's underlying jousting value. TIE Fighters are used as the 100% reference point for all meta. "Degrees of certainty" apply to the "Total Efficiency" Columns. The Jousting Efficiency columns are only based on the stat line and some general assumptions of the underlying metagame and action economy.

 

Very High Degree of Certainty

 

                                         Jousting Efficiency           Total Efficiency      

Ship                            min           std.          max         min         std          max

TIE Fighter                   100.0%    100.0%   100.0%     100.0%   100.0%   100.0%
TIE Fighter + Howl        116.6%    117.1%   117.8%     116.6%    117.1%  117.8%
TIE Advanced               80.6%       80.7%      80.7%       80.9%     81.0%    81.0%
TIE Interceptor              88.3%      89.5%     91.0%         94.5%    95.8%     97.4%
TIE Interceptor + Howl  101.2%     103.2%   105.6%      106.3%   108.3%  110.9%
X-wing                           88.9%       91.8%     94.0%        94.1%     97.1%    99.4%
A-wing                          85.1%       85.1%      85.1%       89.5%      89.5%    89.5%
B-wing                           92.4%      97.2%      100.3%     100.0%   105.2%   108.5%
E-wing                           80.2%      81.4%     82.8%        89.2%     90.5%     92.1%
Z-95                             104.7%     106.6%   107.3%      108.5%   110.5%    111.2%
A-wing + Refit               96.4%       96.5%     96.5%        98.8%     98.9%      98.9%
 

High Degree of Certainty

TIE Bomber: requires ordnance to fill a useful role.

 

                                         Jousting Efficiency           Total Efficiency      

Ship                            min           std.          max         min         std          max

TIE Bomber                 95.8%      97.5%       98.2%       96.2%     97.9%     98.6%

 

 

Medium Degree of Certainty

Y-wing: turret on a 2 attack ship.

YT-1300: 360 degree primary weapon

Firespray: rear arc

 

                                         Jousting Efficiency           Total Efficiency      

Ship                            min           std.          max         min         std          max

Y-wing                         84.9%       88.1%       89.4%       86.5%     89.8%    91.1%
ORS                            60.1%       62.4%       63.3%       82.0%    85.1%    86.3%
Named YT-1300          66.5%       70.0%       72.3%       90.7%    95.4%    98.5%
Firespray                    82.3%       84.9%       87.0%       95.2%     98.2% 100.6%

 

 

Low Degree of Certainty

HWK-290: turret on a 1 attack ship.

Lambda: No K-turns and no white turns

TIE Defender: white K-turn

TIE Phantom: cloak action

 

                                         Jousting Efficiency           Total Efficiency      

Ship                            min           std.          max         min         std          max

HWK-290                     55.0%       57.2%      58.5%      38.2%     39.7%     40.7%
Lambda                       108.1%     113.8%    117.4%     83.6%    87.9%     90.7%
TIE Defender               78.8%       79.9%      81.3%       88.8%    90.0%     91.6%
TIE Phantom                84.6%       88.2%     91.4%        96.4%    100.5%  104.2%
TIE Phantom + cloak   102.3%     105.4%    110.0%      116.6%   120.1% 125.3%

Edited by MajorJuggler, 08 June 2014 - 01:18 PM.


#18 Ribann

Ribann

    Member

  • Members
  • 496 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:37 PM

So I just gave this list yet ANOTHER go. Went up against:

 

Delta Squadron Pilot+HLC+EU

Delta Squadron Pilot+HLC+EU

Night Beast+SD

 

1st round I got two pot shots at a Defender. Took 1s on a Rookie from his HLC. Next round was a complete mess. I didn't want him to 2 forward and reuse HLC. I opted to get my guys in close for range 1 shots. Set them all for a 2 bank. He moved 4 forward to block with his defender. Mess of collisions and action denial. I did manage to land a crit with Etahn on his defender. The crit was Munitions Failure. Ouch. He got mad and left immediately after, probably upset that his "plan" with HLCs and Defenders crashed and burned.

 

So, at least OP's list has potential trolling value. No squad point cost.


  • Osoroshii likes this

#19 Osoroshii

Osoroshii

    龍神

  • Members
  • 1,081 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:18 PM

 So, at least OP's list has potential trolling value. No squad point cost.


I got a good chuckle out of that........




© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS