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Another Day, Another Defender Mauling


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#61 phild0

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:56 PM

KO, thanks for keeping us updated on your Defender musings. I am quite intrigued, and have also been QUITE impressed with the HLC + Engine defender.

 

I've been trying out:

Vessery + HLC + Engine + VI

OGP + FCS or Vader or ST321

Night Beast + TC

Academy Pilot

99/100

 

Lots of fun. Vessery was quite impressive. 4k turn and boost, still having a TL, just TOO amazing. I also really enjoyed having a Tie Fighter with TC, especially night beast who doesn't sacrifice defense to take a TL. Could always do Backstabber, but then again I want the option for initiative against any Echo + VI lists :P

 

I'll also be trying:

Vessery + HLC + Engine + VI

OGP + FCS + Gunner + Engine + Weap Engineer

Night Beast + TC

99pts

 

Just because I LOVE the Buzzsaw Shuttle.

 

Or maybe a Kath + Vessery list:

Kath + Proton Bomb/Assault Missile + PTL + Weap Eng + Engine

Vessery + HLC + Engine + VI

 

Or Vessery + 2 x Shuttle.



#62 phild0

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:58 PM

Just ran:

 

Vessery+ VI + HLC

Scimitar + Cluster

Scimitar + Cluster

NB + TC

 

Had the misfortune of playing vs.

 

Jake + VI + Outmanuver + refit + test pilot + Hull

Cracken + cluster + squad leader

Tarn + R7 + Proton

Bandit + cluster

 

Was very pleased with the Defender for the first few rounds.  Consistent damage every turn, white kturn + HLC  with free TL's was fun.  But then Jake did his thing.  Totally outmanuevers the defender.  Lots of range 1 shots for 3 red with focus vs. 2 green sometimes with focus whittles you down.  And when he doesn't have that range 1 pain he can turtle up and/or arc dodge.

 

Defender was the MVP but the MVP on a losing team is still not a lot to pin your hopes and dreams on.  I'll keep playing because it's not perfect the first few times you try it, but I'm not liking that this thing gets out flown by my favorite ship: the interceptor.

 

PS... Jake with this set up... nutz... totally nutz.

 

Definitely another list I considered, I think I will end up dropping the missiles for 2 x Seismic and add Engine to Vessery.



#63 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:59 PM

Just going over in my head my last game... I think my opponent was PTLing Jake... Jake doesn't have "PTL" after I killed Cracken... maybe not as bad as I thought. 



#64 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:02 PM


 

Definitely another list I considered, I think I will end up dropping the missiles for 2 x Seismic and add Engine to Vessery.

 

I really missed the EU.  Thought of multiple times it would have been really useful.  Maybe drop a scimitar to a plain tie and add EU.  Think there are points left for a seismic there too and a TC for the academy if you really want that.

 

NB is a nice addition.  Totally can take a TL to make sure Vessary gets his shots off or turtle up if he finds himself focused down.  Little bugger lives a long time for me... longer than a tie has any right to.  Some days I want to but a shield upgrade on him for giggles and see how long he lives. 


Edited by Rakky Wistol, 07 June 2014 - 10:03 PM.


#65 That One Guy

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:05 PM

I don't get why you'd want to add an engine upgrade to a ship that has an HLC. Doesn't 4 attack dice at any range make boosting pointless (at least, for 4 extra points)?



#66 Sithborg

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:07 PM

Engine Upgrade assists in turning.



#67 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:10 PM

White 4 Kturns are awesome with HLC... until your opponent deviates from the joust and you're stuck staring at pretty stars in the deep expanses of space.


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#68 That One Guy

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:20 PM

White 4 Kturns are awesome with HLC... until your opponent deviates from the joust and you're stuck staring at pretty stars in the deep expanses of space.

Haven't really had that problem. So far I've used WKT seldom enough that when I finally did do it, my opponents weren't expecting it or had forgotten about it.


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#69 PenguinBonaparte

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:46 PM

 

White 4 Kturns are awesome with HLC... until your opponent deviates from the joust and you're stuck staring at pretty stars in the deep expanses of space.

Haven't really had that problem. So far I've used WKT seldom enough that when I finally did do it, my opponents weren't expecting it or had forgotten about it.

 

At least in my matches I approached at enough of an angle that arcs worked out really nicely. Just don't go straight.


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#70 Norsehound

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:56 AM

White 4 Kturns are awesome with HLC... until your opponent deviates from the joust and you're stuck staring at pretty stars in the deep expanses of space.

Thank the maker for Engine upgrades!

 

Yes it'll make the Defender expensive but it's expensive to begin with. Go big or go home!


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#71 KineticOperator

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:34 AM

Engine Upgrade for the Defender is like Push the Limit for interceptors.  While it isn't strictly necessary, it is really key to unlocking the true potential of the ship.  While it is possible to run either ship without "their" upgrade, both of them gain so much from it you should make a point to try and find the space if at all possible.

 

Also, as Penguin has noted, you don't want to come in straight-on.  If you come in at a slight angle, it is much more difficult for the opponent to counter you.  A 1 bank towards them to slowroll, or a 3 bank towards/away to avoid, or a k-turn that they can only block by turning away from you.  It takes a while to get the hang of the odd dial, but once you do it is very difficult to block.



#72 Gundog8324

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:36 AM

 

 

 

Actually one thing I am hoping to try out if he doesn't get lit up first thing out of the gate is:
 
Rexler Brath  (focus on free action)
Autoblaster and Marksmanship.    (yes it is pricey at 45 total)
 
Yes it with autoblaster I don't get the crit, but I'm going to turn over all my hits with that  (once they get through shields of course and if I survive the next round where I can do a non stressed Koiogran 'dk' turn.
 
I just wish I had more focus feeder wingers so I could use the barrel roll free action with him.  
 
It probably won't work as well as I think it will, but will be fun trying.

What is marksmanship doing for you that focus won't?
Other than that, I can see Brath making good use of the autoblaster. They can't avoid hits so holding the focus isn't so much of a gamble. Outmanuever or predator would work better than Marksmanship though.

 

Because with Brath the focus token, once penetrated shields, I can spend the focus token to turn all damage cards face up.  Since all crits become hits with autocannon, it allows me more fodder. Marksman yes same as focus, but any damage I cause that gets to the hull I can flip them.   

The one thing I don't know is with marksman I can just change them all to hits, (since it says I may change the first one to crit) then with autoblaster regular hits cannot be evaded, and with the focus token on Brath I can flip over any cards as if they were crits. 

 

Yes but unless i'm unclear on how you're accomplishing something, you can't Focus and Marksmanship in the same round. If you use Marksmanship, you won't have a focus token.

 

I think he means if you have Vader+Squad Leader sitting around or something else



#73 Gundog8324

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:40 AM

 

White 4 Kturns are awesome with HLC... until your opponent deviates from the joust and you're stuck staring at pretty stars in the deep expanses of space.

Haven't really had that problem. So far I've used WKT seldom enough that when I finally did do it, my opponents weren't expecting it or had forgotten about it.

 

Personally I think I have used the 1 banks in the middle of combat(not counting using them as opening moves) than I have the K-turn 



#74 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:44 PM

Banks are ok but you gotta get distance with the defender. In my second game it got focus fired down pretty fast when things got close. Keeping it at range 3 for 4 att an 4 def keeps it around longer.

The issue with coming in on a bank is as soon as your opponent bank you're face on again. A bank or turn by them now instead of a kturn means if you Kturn you've got nothing if you can't boost afterward. As soon as they get you doing that its a red to turn and chase them and then you start losing your focus and your boost.

#75 AlexW

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 05:35 PM

White 4 Kturns are awesome with HLC... until your opponent deviates from the joust and you're stuck staring at pretty stars in the deep expanses of space.

Haven't really had that problem. So far I've used WKT seldom enough that when I finally did do it, my opponents weren't expecting it or had forgotten about it.

This won't happen against for very long or against good opponents.

#76 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:22 PM

 

 

White 4 Kturns are awesome with HLC... until your opponent deviates from the joust and you're stuck staring at pretty stars in the deep expanses of space.

Haven't really had that problem. So far I've used WKT seldom enough that when I finally did do it, my opponents weren't expecting it or had forgotten about it.

This won't happen against for very long or against good opponents.

 

Exactly.  Or vs. Interceptors, phantoms, or awings and probably ewings.  They bank and turn and you have no hope of keeping them in sights if they don't want you to.  Gotta keep those guys at range 1. 



#77 That One Guy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:31 PM

 

 

 

White 4 Kturns are awesome with HLC... until your opponent deviates from the joust and you're stuck staring at pretty stars in the deep expanses of space.

Haven't really had that problem. So far I've used WKT seldom enough that when I finally did do it, my opponents weren't expecting it or had forgotten about it.

This won't happen against for very long or against good opponents.

 

Exactly.  Or vs. Interceptors, phantoms, or awings and probably ewings.  They bank and turn and you have no hope of keeping them in sights if they don't want you to.  Gotta keep those guys at range 1. 

 

For that I've been using good secondary weapons and getting by with a little help from my friends. BST with targeting computer, or the recent upswing in using cheap bombers as fighters has turned Vessery into an HLC wielding beast. Then it doesn't matter if you've got their left buttock at range 3 by a millimeter. It's still 4 attack with TL and focus.


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#78 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:36 PM

0-2 with the delta defender.  Not working out for me.  Gets focused down awfully fast for a 3ag ship with 6 hp.  Vessary was a terror when I tried him though. 



#79 Jagd

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:42 PM

0-2 with the delta defender.  Not working out for me.  Gets focused down awfully fast for a 3ag ship with 6 hp.  Vessary was a terror when I tried him though.


Try this build for the Delta and tell me how it worked out for you:

-Delta + HLC
- Howl + ST
- Mauler + ST
- Academy x2

You start the game with the Delta and Mauler on one side and the other 3 Ties on the other flank. Your Delta will shoot at PS7 thanks to Mauler.

I had great success so far with this mini swarm!

#80 Scurvy Lobster

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:33 AM

Had my first game with the Defender last night (HLC and EU upgrades + Boba Fett with various stuff). Won by a very small margin against dual Falcons which was a nightmare opponent. The white koiogran came to good use and didn't seem to be that obvious for my opponent to spot as I had anticipated.






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