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Another Day, Another Defender Mauling


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#41 Damoel

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 01:50 AM

 

I wonder how a list stacked with defenders would fare vs bwing heavy list.

Well, how many of each? Two named pilots v. two named pilots, or the low PS ones or what? what armaments? Because if even low skill Defenders get ion cannons, the B-wings are screwed.

 

 

I assume he meant a 100 point list made entirely from those two ships. Also, the B-Wings could pack Ions as well. I think it'd favor the B-Wings slightly, as they can fit 4 blues with ion cannons, and the imps can only bring 3 defenders with ion cannons. It'd be a fun grudge match though!


Fleet timez!

 

Anarchists: 6 A-Wing, 6 B-Wing, 2 Y-Wing, 6 X-Wing, 3 Z-95, 3 E-Wing, 2 HWK290, 2 YT-1300, 2 GR-75, 1 CR90

Good Guys: 6 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/AD, 3 TIE/D, 6 TIE/IN, 4 TIE/SA, 4 Phantom V38, 2 Lambda Shuttle, 2 Firespray-31


#42 That One Guy

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 01:55 AM

 

 

I wonder how a list stacked with defenders would fare vs bwing heavy list.

Well, how many of each? Two named pilots v. two named pilots, or the low PS ones or what? what armaments? Because if even low skill Defenders get ion cannons, the B-wings are screwed.

 

 

I assume he meant a 100 point list made entirely from those two ships. Also, the B-Wings could pack Ions as well. I think it'd favor the B-Wings slightly, as they can fit 4 blues with ion cannons, and the imps can only bring 3 defenders with ion cannons. It'd be a fun grudge match though!

 

Yes but i was thinking that the Defender has a much better chance to hit the B-Wing with its ion cannon than the other way around. All they have to do is get at least two hits in any way possible. The B-wings could get three, and conceivably have them all dodged. And that would have a drastic effect. For instance, if it was both named pilots vs. each other and decked to the nines, if both B-wings happen to get ioned, they might be marched right off the board without even firing a shot.



#43 Jon D

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 01:56 AM

Vader is still good (looking forward to using him with Outmaneuver), thus the Advanced has a place.


Squad Leader is also a good choice, seeing as if he gives one of his actiona to a Defender, he still has one left over.

#44 Damoel

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 02:09 AM

 

 

 

I wonder how a list stacked with defenders would fare vs bwing heavy list.

Well, how many of each? Two named pilots v. two named pilots, or the low PS ones or what? what armaments? Because if even low skill Defenders get ion cannons, the B-wings are screwed.

 

 

I assume he meant a 100 point list made entirely from those two ships. Also, the B-Wings could pack Ions as well. I think it'd favor the B-Wings slightly, as they can fit 4 blues with ion cannons, and the imps can only bring 3 defenders with ion cannons. It'd be a fun grudge match though!

 

Yes but i was thinking that the Defender has a much better chance to hit the B-Wing with its ion cannon than the other way around. All they have to do is get at least two hits in any way possible. The B-wings could get three, and conceivably have them all dodged. And that would have a drastic effect. For instance, if it was both named pilots vs. each other and decked to the nines, if both B-wings happen to get ioned, they might be marched right off the board without even firing a shot.

 

 

Ah, yeh, thats fair. I didn't really ponder that. That may even make the 3v4 favor the Defenders... I think I'll conceed this round to you. At least until I find someone to try this out with. ;)


Fleet timez!

 

Anarchists: 6 A-Wing, 6 B-Wing, 2 Y-Wing, 6 X-Wing, 3 Z-95, 3 E-Wing, 2 HWK290, 2 YT-1300, 2 GR-75, 1 CR90

Good Guys: 6 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/AD, 3 TIE/D, 6 TIE/IN, 4 TIE/SA, 4 Phantom V38, 2 Lambda Shuttle, 2 Firespray-31


#45 Norsehound

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 02:58 AM

Fair to say the Defender is the best fighter in the game? Apart from the cost, of course.



#46 Dagonet

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 04:26 AM

 

 

I wonder how a list stacked with defenders would fare vs bwing heavy list.

Well, how many of each? Two named pilots v. two named pilots, or the low PS ones or what? what armaments? Because if even low skill Defenders get ion cannons, the B-wings are screwed.

 

 

I assume he meant a 100 point list made entirely from those two ships. Also, the B-Wings could pack Ions as well. I think it'd favor the B-Wings slightly, as they can fit 4 blues with ion cannons, and the imps can only bring 3 defenders with ion cannons. It'd be a fun grudge match though!

 

 

I think I'd prefer 3 decked out Daggers in that case, to make'em turn on a dime. 



#47 KineticOperator

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:19 AM

What lists have you run with the Defender?

 

 

My favorite Defender-centric lists are these 3 (I really enjoy using Vessery).

 

Imdaar list:

 

Echo (Veteran Instincts, Weapons Engineer, Fire Control System, Advanced Cloaking Device)

Vessery (Opportunist, Heavy Laser Cannon, Engine Upgrade, Assault Missile)

 

Two Ship Tango:

 

Jendon (HLC, FCS, Weapons Engineer, St 321)

Vessery (Opportunist, HLC, Engine Upgrade, Assault Missile)

 

Flippers

 

Delta (Engine Upgrade, HLC) x 2

Backstabber (Targeting Computer)

 

Plus an assortment of mini-swarms, Firesprays, and Interceptors.  All of the Defenders play well, I have just developed a particular attachment to combining Vessery with a Weapons Engineer.  The ship with the Engineer uses one TL on their own target, and the second one goes on the ship Vessery is about to hit.  Good times.  

 

The most lopsided game I have had so far was Vessery+Jendon vs a 3 Dagger (HLC, FCS) list.  Jendon firing 4 dice TL/Focus, then Vessery firing 4 or 5 dice TL/Focus.  It took exactly 3 turns of shooting to bring all 3 down.  When they came into range, one of the B-Wings used its Barrel Roll to get out from behind a rock for next turns maneuvering.  Jendon fired at him with TL and focus, and hung 4 damage on.  Then Vessery used the Assault Missile with Opportunist (he had been handed his TL by Jendon several turns ago), and because of the mechanics of Vessery's ability, those 5 dice had TL and focus as well.  Boom, dead B-Wing and the other 2 took 1.  The next 2 turns were Jendon and Vessery firing with 4 dice either TL or TL+focus at the two B-Wings, and they went away in short order.  Good times.

 

I don't want to overstate the Defenders abilities, it is certainly not unbeatable especially if you are still getting used to its unusual dial.  But yes, I would agree that it is the best fighter in the game, and has a price tag to match it.  The ship works, without breaking the game, which makes me happy.



#48 Gundog8324

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:58 AM

 

 

I don't want to overstate the Defenders abilities, it is certainly not unbeatable especially if you are still getting used to its unusual dial.  But yes, I would agree that it is the best fighter in the game, and has a price tag to match it.  The ship works, without breaking the game, which makes me happy.

 

This is coincides with my Opinion of the Phantom, excellent ships both, but they will only do well if the person using them knows how to use them.  Its the surgeon using the Scalpel that matters more than the scalpel.



#49 MajorJuggler

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 05:05 PM

I have a completely non-strategy related question - I'm trying to plan out some custom foam and am wondering about the physical dimensions of the Defender. Could you measure the width/height, and depth? Thanks. I assume it's 270 scale but wasn't exactly sure which model they actually went with, etc.



#50 Aminar

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 05:57 PM

I have a completely non-strategy related question - I'm trying to plan out some custom foam and am wondering about the physical dimensions of the Defender. Could you measure the width/height, and depth? Thanks. I assume it's 270 scale but wasn't exactly sure which model they actually went with, etc.

The Defender is about the same length as an Interceptor and about the Height of two of them stacked on eachother, if I remember correctly.
The Phantom is kinda tiny.

#51 MajorJuggler

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 06:35 PM

Yeah, I knew the approximate numbers, I was just wondering if anyone could break out a ruler.  :)



#52 Aminar

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 06:38 PM

Yeah, I knew the approximate numbers, I was just wondering if anyone could break out a ruler.  :)


Would if I could. But I picked the Phantom. And I just finished painting it. :P
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#53 MajorJuggler

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 07:06 PM

 

Yeah, I knew the approximate numbers, I was just wondering if anyone could break out a ruler.  :)


Would if I could. But I picked the Phantom. And I just finished painting it. :P

 

 

Nice! Actually, I'll take the measurements on the Phantom if you don't mind then. :-) length / width / height.



#54 Aminar

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 07:16 PM

1 Inch, 9/16th's long.
1 Inch 1/8th wide.
15/16ths high.(1 inch 1/8th with peg)
1 inch 1/16ths from bottom of a side fin to the top of the upper fin
These were measured with a ruler sans calipers, but it's What I got.
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#55 krechevskoy

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 07:33 PM

Actually one thing I am hoping to try out if he doesn't get lit up first thing out of the gate is:

 

Rexler Brath  (focus on free action)

Autoblaster and Marksmanship.    (yes it is pricey at 45 total)

 

Yes it with autoblaster I don't get the crit, but I'm going to turn over all my hits with that  (once they get through shields of course and if I survive the next round where I can do a non stressed Koiogran 'dk' turn.

 

I just wish I had more focus feeder wingers so I could use the barrel roll free action with him.  

 

It probably won't work as well as I think it will, but will be fun trying. 
 



#56 Aminar

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 07:36 PM

Actually one thing I am hoping to try out if he doesn't get lit up first thing out of the gate is:
 
Rexler Brath  (focus on free action)
Autoblaster and Marksmanship.    (yes it is pricey at 45 total)
 
Yes it with autoblaster I don't get the crit, but I'm going to turn over all my hits with that  (once they get through shields of course and if I survive the next round where I can do a non stressed Koiogran 'dk' turn.
 
I just wish I had more focus feeder wingers so I could use the barrel roll free action with him.  
 
It probably won't work as well as I think it will, but will be fun trying.

What is marksmanship doing for you that focus won't?
Other than that, I can see Brath making good use of the autoblaster. They can't avoid hits so holding the focus isn't so much of a gamble. Outmanuever or predator would work better than Marksmanship though.

#57 krechevskoy

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:33 PM

 

Actually one thing I am hoping to try out if he doesn't get lit up first thing out of the gate is:
 
Rexler Brath  (focus on free action)
Autoblaster and Marksmanship.    (yes it is pricey at 45 total)
 
Yes it with autoblaster I don't get the crit, but I'm going to turn over all my hits with that  (once they get through shields of course and if I survive the next round where I can do a non stressed Koiogran 'dk' turn.
 
I just wish I had more focus feeder wingers so I could use the barrel roll free action with him.  
 
It probably won't work as well as I think it will, but will be fun trying.

What is marksmanship doing for you that focus won't?
Other than that, I can see Brath making good use of the autoblaster. They can't avoid hits so holding the focus isn't so much of a gamble. Outmanuever or predator would work better than Marksmanship though.

 

Because with Brath the focus token, once penetrated shields, I can spend the focus token to turn all damage cards face up.  Since all crits become hits with autocannon, it allows me more fodder. Marksman yes same as focus, but any damage I cause that gets to the hull I can flip them.   

The one thing I don't know is with marksman I can just change them all to hits, (since it says I may change the first one to crit) then with autoblaster regular hits cannot be evaded, and with the focus token on Brath I can flip over any cards as if they were crits. 



#58 That One Guy

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:06 PM

 

 

Actually one thing I am hoping to try out if he doesn't get lit up first thing out of the gate is:
 
Rexler Brath  (focus on free action)
Autoblaster and Marksmanship.    (yes it is pricey at 45 total)
 
Yes it with autoblaster I don't get the crit, but I'm going to turn over all my hits with that  (once they get through shields of course and if I survive the next round where I can do a non stressed Koiogran 'dk' turn.
 
I just wish I had more focus feeder wingers so I could use the barrel roll free action with him.  
 
It probably won't work as well as I think it will, but will be fun trying.

What is marksmanship doing for you that focus won't?
Other than that, I can see Brath making good use of the autoblaster. They can't avoid hits so holding the focus isn't so much of a gamble. Outmanuever or predator would work better than Marksmanship though.

 

Because with Brath the focus token, once penetrated shields, I can spend the focus token to turn all damage cards face up.  Since all crits become hits with autocannon, it allows me more fodder. Marksman yes same as focus, but any damage I cause that gets to the hull I can flip them.   

The one thing I don't know is with marksman I can just change them all to hits, (since it says I may change the first one to crit) then with autoblaster regular hits cannot be evaded, and with the focus token on Brath I can flip over any cards as if they were crits. 

 

Yes but unless i'm unclear on how you're accomplishing something, you can't Focus and Marksmanship in the same round. If you use Marksmanship, you won't have a focus token.



#59 PenguinBonaparte

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:26 PM

So far I've only gotten in 2 games with my Defender, crushing victories, but I'm not sure they were good tests. It was a ton of fun. I did

Vessery + VI + an Ion missile = 39

Tetran + PtL + TC = 29

Yorr + Engine + ST321 = 32 

 

I found that he combined really well with Tetran's PtL, while Yorr soaked a ton of stress. It was a brutal firing combination. Next time I'll just drop the missile and use a weapons engineer. I'm also really looking forward to getting some wingman cards. I think a similar thing could work with Rexler and PtL, which saves on some of the target-lock apparatus.

 

And I know it's probably dumb, but what about just putting swarm tactics on Rexler and pairing him with a Delta Squadron? 


Edited by PenguinBonaparte, 07 June 2014 - 09:27 PM.


#60 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:32 PM

Just ran:

 

Vessery+ VI + HLC

Scimitar + Cluster

Scimitar + Cluster

NB + TC

 

Had the misfortune of playing vs.

 

Jake + VI + Outmanuver + refit + test pilot + Hull

Cracken + cluster + squad leader

Tarn + R7 + Proton

Bandit + cluster

 

Was very pleased with the Defender for the first few rounds.  Consistent damage every turn, white kturn + HLC  with free TL's was fun.  But then Jake did his thing.  Totally outmanuevers the defender.  Lots of range 1 shots for 3 red with focus vs. 2 green sometimes with focus whittles you down.  And when he doesn't have that range 1 pain he can turtle up and/or arc dodge.

 

Defender was the MVP but the MVP on a losing team is still not a lot to pin your hopes and dreams on.  I'll keep playing because it's not perfect the first few times you try it, but I'm not liking that this thing gets out flown by my favorite ship: the interceptor.

 

PS... Jake with this set up... nutz... totally nutz.


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