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Developing List: Opportunity KNACKS!


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#1 CowboyJesus

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:16 AM

Hope Rakky Wistol doesn't mind me stealing his post format (Developing List), seems like a good idea :D (I'll change it if you do)

 

So, opportunist, that seems pretty popular? It has become my new favourite card so clearly wanted to pop it into my first proper Rebel build, here we go....

 

Wes Janson+Swarm Tactics (31)

Green Squad+Opportunist+Chardaan Refit (21)

Green Squad+Opportunist+Chardaan Refit (21)

Gold Squadron+Ion Turret+R3-A2 (25)

 

98 pts all in, clearly not tournament ready till Rebel Aces but nevermind.

 

The A-Wings I use as flankers, either together or one on each depending on the opponent, having the world of green moves and being a fast as they are they fit this roll pretty well, and the extra teeth makes all the difference, at R1 it's like having a misslie every turn only better!.

Wes and the Y-Wing in the meantime, fly up the board fairly slowly stressing/ioning and stripping tokens as they go, allowing the A's even more "opportunities" to cause havoc behind the enemy.

 

So far it's done fairly well, without having actually took any notes (silly boy) I think it's approx 60/40 win loss, it has had a couple of alterations in that time. Wes at one point had Expose just incase the enemy went for the A's and he found himself outside of fire arcs, it was "OKish". Also Wes at one time carried the droid for the Y but he became more of a target so I stopped that.

 

There are 2pts to spend and I had considered a droid for Wes but was fairly happy to go with initiative.

 

Cheers for looking.


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#2 StevenO

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:38 AM

R3A2 on a Y-Wing is HIGHLY questionable.  The two problems are that the Y-Wing is terrible at dumping Stress and more importantly R3A2 ONLY works when the defender is in your firing arc.  Turrets don't help R3A2 and the Y-Wing's dial may mean fewer ships in its sights.  I just want to point that out in case you are playing it incorrectly as many seem to want to do.

 

With your two left over points (granted you could get more by dropping Swarm Tactics and R3A2) you could give both A-Wing Veteran Instincts to push up their PS although that may mean shooting before someone has had a chance to dump those tokens you want them to get rid of before you attack. 


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#3 Parakitor

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:44 AM

Nah, the Y-wing is excellent for that droid. You give them stress when they're in your arc, and while you move straight to clear stress, you still have a shot with your turret, and they might not. Obviously the ideal is to chase a ship on a straight course to keep 'em locked down.

I do question Swarm Tactics. Veteran Instincts seems the obvious choice, and then you could give Wes an R2 Astromech and stay at 99 points for initiative bid.
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#4 Khyros

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 12:47 PM

I don't get the Opportunist on Green A wings right now...  For 21 points, you're stressing yourself to get a 3rd die.  Then you are restricted to straight and 2 speed maneuvers to clear stress...  

 

Or you could have an Rookie for 21 points... It's 1 less PS, but it has 1spd banks, and 3speed maneuvers and 4k... And they don't rely on Wes to get that 3rd die...

 

Edit: Also, with those 2 points remaining, put VI on both of your A wings, and then you might have a bit of an argument for it.


Edited by Khyros, 06 June 2014 - 12:48 PM.

The fleet:  

Spoiler

#5 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:17 PM

As long as your using it to provide high level cometary (or at least higher level cometary that just posting a list and saying what do you think)... steal away.  Mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery and all that.

 

I don't like opportunist here (ok, I don't like it much anywhere).  You only have 1 ship firing before the Greens and while he can token strip, it's only one ship.  I'd add an awing test pilot mod and go with outmaneuver and VI for the same cost on one of the greens so that you have 2 ships firing before your opportunist.  Ywing... well... don't like them much either so I'd blue with Adv Sens.


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#6 Ghaerdon

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:51 PM

CowboyJesus ... Isn't that a financially expensive build?
Rebels: 4 X Wings; 3 B Wings; 2 A Wings; 2 Y Wings; 2 E Wing; 5 z95; 1 YT-1300; 2 HWK-290; GR-75; Tantive
Empire: 7 Tie Fighters; 3 Tie Interceptors; 2 Tie Bombers; 1 Tie Advanced; 2 Firespray-31; 2 Lambda Shuttles; 2 Tie Defender; 2 Tie Phantom
Scum: (will be getting ... 2 Most Wanted; 2 StarViper; 2 IG-2000; 4 M3-A)

#7 CowboyJesus

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 04:42 PM

Cheers for the thoughts.

 

yeah I'm aware of how R3 A2 works I've not been cheating, promise.

For me I felt the droid made whichever ship had it a target and the Y has 8H/S to get through so was fairly well equiped to deal with the hurt, the lack of green has been an issue maybe once or twice, but as I generally just plod forward with it it seems ok.

I will try this build with a Blue, while I'm not a massive fan of the B-wing I can see how it would work as an alternative, just a little less control orientated.

 

As for the A's, I see how opportunist makes them more like an X-wing but the X-wing just isn't as fast, tactically it can't be used like the A-wing, it also has less evade and fewer actions available to it, I see the X and the B as the front line fighters, flanking with them just isn't an option.

Question, does the new title allow you to put 2 different EPT's on or an extra upgrade that isn't of a type it already has available? I'm guessing the former but just wanted to be sure.

I'm not 100% sure how well recieved the A-wing has been since it's release (judging by the regional reports not very), maybe there is a better option for them, I'll have to have a think.

Is a Rookie with an engine upgade nearly as good? 25pts, 1 less PS, 1 less evade, no evade action, no 5 forward. Hmm?

Outmaneuver is one I hadn't thought of, what is the math on reducing agility over increasing attack? "I need a math person stat!"

 

Ghaerdon: Do you mead to buy cash monies or pts? ;)

 

Rakky Wistol: Cheers, I shall try and live up to the epic topic of "Scarlet Cowgirl" :D


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#8 Tanarri

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:49 PM

As I was reading through the thread I was going to suggest outmaneuver on both Awings instead of opportunist but it seems someone beat me to the punch.



#9 Radarman5

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 04:34 PM

How about this variant:

Wes Janson (29)
Rebel Operative + Ion Turret + Tactician (23)
Green + Chardaan Refit + A-Wing Test Pilot + Outmaneuver + Opportunist (24)
Green + Chardaan Refit + A-Wing Test Pilot + Outmaneuver + Opportunist (24)
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EMPIRE: 5 TIE Fighters, 4 TIE Bombers, 4 TIE Interceptors, 1 TIE Defender, 1 TIE Phantom, 1 TIE Advanced, 1 Lambda Shuttle, 2 Firesprays

REBEL: 2 A-Wings, 1 B-Wing, 3 X-Wings, 1 HWK-290, 1 CR-90, 1 GR-75

SCUM & VILLAINY: 2 Firesprays, 1 HWK-290


#10 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:51 PM

@ Cowboy Jesus... don't forget Baron's Focus (and about 2 other threads that spawned) and the current Apex Predators...

 

Awings time is coming soon... Double EPT and action granting is just sick sick.  Jake is gnarly.  They were fun to fly before, soon they'll be fun and deadly.

 

Keep up the good work.



#11 CowboyJesus

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:50 AM

Gonna test some of the suggested changes this evening, I will let you all know how they feel compared to the original build.

I like the sound of that build with the HWK @Radarman5, will also give that a shot (when I get a HWK)
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#12 cubby09

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:58 PM

Try this:

http://xwing-builder.../slice-and-dice

 

the awings will get five dice at range 1


"I can hold it.....no, I'm alrigh......agghhh!" 

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Rebel 4 x-wings, 2 y-wings, 3 b-wing, 1 HWK, 2 Falcons, 3 A-wing, GR-75


#13 Jo Jo

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:39 PM

Eww Expose... 

 

How bout this: 

 

Jan Ors w/ SL, Numb, and Ion turret - 33 points. (expensive HWK, but ultimate offensive support ship) 

 

Tarn Mison w/ R7 astometric - 25 points. 

 

Green Sqd. w/ Opportunist and Chardaan X 2 - 42 points. 

 

Jan Ors can buff whoever has the best shot. Be it one of the A-wings or Tarn. Tarn and Jan fire before the A's to ensure the target doesn't have any tokens on it so Opportunist kicks in. The A's do a pass, kill something and turn around for another. Jan will likely get killed first, but the A-wings should cause quite a bit of damage before then. Tarn is a great end game ship. You could use Biggs instead to keep Jan alive for at least another turn. 

 

While it might not be a tourney list, the look on your opponents face when an A-wing is rolling 5 dice, while TL'd and Focused might be priceless. If you go against a build that can dish out stess, you might be in trouble. 


Edited by Jo Jo, 08 June 2014 - 01:42 PM.

"And then, we'll remind the Rebellion what war is all about." 


#14 CowboyJesus

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:43 PM

So the other nights test games...

I tried running pretty much the same list just swapping opportunist for outmaneuver, immediately Wes was less useful, not entirely since his ability is pretty boss but the synergy with the A's was lost somewhat so a different option could be used there instead (possibly Wedge to keep up the agility reduction?). The A's themselves felt a little more tricky to use, trying hard to keep them out of arc and getting a shott off with both on the same target was easier said than done, especially since my opponent quickly became aware of how bad 1 less agility was and turned to face where possible. So it's an impressive ability but maybe not for this list, I think maybe Wedge in there, a couple of B's and 1 A packing this might work?

 

I also got to have a shot at @Radarman5 idea with the HWK, now it could be my lack of experience with the HWK but I didn't like flying it as much as the Y (I do love Y's). The A's with both opportunist and outmaneuver had the potential to be savage however I think they were just too much of a juicy target for my opponent and a phantom killed one of them in one shot! The list included Wes and we added the R3-A2 just to compliment the ion turret on the HWK, this combination can really help to shut down PTL interceptors.

 

Well despite the dice hating me all evening the composition of the list still feels about right, I'm liking tool boxing ships rather than using multiples of one (tho you can fit 4 OP/OUT A-Wings in a list ;) ) it's fun to fly and there are a lot of options and tactics to be had out of it. Think I'll try both of the above again very soon.

 

@cubby09 expose is a fun card, I have some concerns about it tho (especially on low PS pilots), with it being an action you have to commit to it after your move and you may or may not know where your opponent is going to be, even more so if you're facing interceptors/phantoms or adv sen B's. Also, with it being your action you'll not be doing anything like focus or evade or even your boost. I prefer the passive abilities even tho they are conditional most of the time.

 

@Jo Jo like that Tarn idea, might give him a blast and run XXAA Wes Tarn GreenOp GreeOp


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#15 CowboyJesus

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 11:53 AM

@Jo Jo played with a version of your suggested list without Jan using Wes with Predator instead, the double X's dished out some hurt, R7 is class at getting people to not shoot you and the A's did what they do and out flanked the enemy. While I did miss the ion turret for the control just being more aggressive was awesome. The only real draw back is this whole PS 3 thing but I just don't see opportunist working with anything that is much higher?


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#16 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:45 PM

I'm having a lot of success with Jake+outmaneuver+ PTL+ test pilot + refit and Tarn + R7 as a core.  Jan makes this pair really really painful and there is enough room for a Bandit + concussion as a Rookie Xwing light.  Jan Provides Punch...Jake Likes Punch...

 

Jake just flat out outmaneuvers everything besides a phantom, EU Vader, or a higher PS interceptor.  Jan boosting him a die or the bandit's alpha or follow ups leaves tarn as the "hardest target" meaning either him or Jake will make it to end game.  If they do go for Tarn up front he's a mini biggs and just eats up attacks.  Unless they are getting lucky, it takes a long time to wear him down if he's focused on top of making you reroll.


Edited by Rakky Wistol, 11 June 2014 - 12:49 PM.

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#17 CowboyJesus

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 04:29 AM

Jake does seem like an absolute beast! He is going to be a thorn in a lot of people's sides! Love that build as well (tho still not a fan of the HWK), not played much lately but will give this a go, went back to a legal list to play in a pre release, loving the defender now so need a new developing list ;)
Opportunist still seems the win but have lately been thinking mix and match abilities could be the way forward, tool boxing the list so to speak.
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#18 Chumbalaya

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:47 AM

The problem with Opportunist on A-Wings is that you're paying a ton for rolling an extra die on a ship with 2 dice normally.  I feel like the best way to get good use out of it is to combo with something like Predator or Outmaneuver, and that's even more expensive.

 

I like Jo Jo's take.  Jan Ors plus Opportunist makes those little A-Wings very deadly.  I'd really like to fit Wes in there for token stripping, too, but points get tight. 

 

Quick question, would Opportunist add more dice to secondaries?  If so, there's potential to chuck 6 dice homing missiles with Jan's help.  Or, God forbid, Clusters.


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#19 cubby09

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 07:11 AM

The problem with Opportunist on A-Wings is that you're paying a ton for rolling an extra die on a ship with 2 dice normally.  I feel like the best way to get good use out of it is to combo with something like Predator or Outmaneuver, and that's even more expensive.

 

I like Jo Jo's take.  Jan Ors plus Opportunist makes those little A-Wings very deadly.  I'd really like to fit Wes in there for token stripping, too, but points get tight. 

 

Quick question, would Opportunist add more dice to secondaries?  If so, there's potential to chuck 6 dice homing missiles with Jan's help.  Or, God forbid, Clusters.

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"I can hold it.....no, I'm alrigh......agghhh!" 

-The Death of Porkins

Imperial 1 Tie advanced, 1interceptor, 1 bomber, 1 firespray, 2 Lambda, 7 ties, 2 aces

Rebel 4 x-wings, 2 y-wings, 3 b-wing, 1 HWK, 2 Falcons, 3 A-wing, GR-75


#20 cubby09

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 07:19 AM

better yet...jake will get a boost and barrel roll before attacking thus insuring outmanuver

 

http://xwing-builder...164/bounce-baby


"I can hold it.....no, I'm alrigh......agghhh!" 

-The Death of Porkins

Imperial 1 Tie advanced, 1interceptor, 1 bomber, 1 firespray, 2 Lambda, 7 ties, 2 aces

Rebel 4 x-wings, 2 y-wings, 3 b-wing, 1 HWK, 2 Falcons, 3 A-wing, GR-75





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