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Deep Knowledge


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#1 Serazu

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 04:01 AM

There's for quite long in the environment and most -if not all- of us have tested it. What is your opinion guys? Speaking from a purely solo perspective, I 'm personally a little underwhelmed by it. I tried it a lot in my Outlands deck to help me grab my Outlanders, LoV or the Steward sooner than later. That deck also sports Beravor, 3 X Daeron's Runes and 3 X Hunter of Lamedon to aid in the card drawing aspect (3 X Gandalf and 3 X Sneak Attack theoretically contribute too, though I almost never utilize his card drawing ability - I find the rest of the aforementioned cards to be enough and Gandalf can be put to better use elsewhere). In terms of threat, my starting one is 23 (a low score for 3 Heroes) and its reduction comes from Gandalf (this is his ability I use the most, though the damage dealing is used too) / Sneak Attack / Elrond's Counsel. With the combination of the above, one would say that the Doomed 2 from DK is not a big deal. Well, let me tell you, IT IS. Many a time I found myself holding the event in my hand and not daring to use it out of fear of raising threat in alarmingly high levels or engaging an enemy I am not ready to face. When I included the card in the deck (twice - I tried it thrice also, but found it to be an epic overkill), I thought that at early game it wouldn't hurt, plus it would allow me to establish my board presence sooner. In practice, I find its drawback a severe one for what it grants. I 'm starting to think maybe it would be better to replace my two copies of it with two copies of We Are Not Idle, purely for its deck thinning effect (there are no Dwarves in my deck). The comparison between the two shows that DK grants a card more with a threat raise of 2. Is an extra card for a raise of 2 that much of a bargain? Your thoughts concerning DK as itself and then compared to We Are Not Idle's deck thinning effect are more than welcome.


Edited by Serazu, 06 June 2014 - 04:28 AM.


#2 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 04:06 AM

Not so useful in solo (but still is) , extremely useful in multiplayer.


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#3 Serazu

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 04:11 AM

Like I said, I 'm debating its utility in solo play.

 

Concerning its comparison with WANI, which one would you pick in a solo deck and why?



#4 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 04:47 AM

There is times when you're not playing leadershit or need something more from your card than just to replace itself.


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#5 awp832

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 06:34 AM

I think that it's pretty good, definitely one of the best Doomed events,  although Power of the Orthanc is nice to have when you need it.  As mentioned before, it's really good in multiplayer.

For solo play (and I guess in multiplayer too) it just depends on what sort of deck you're using.  It doesn't seem so great in your deck, you already have a ton of available card draw, and are relying on keeping your threat low.   You're putting the card in the wrong sort of deck, so of course you aren't impressed with it.   When you desperately need card draw, it's pretty nice to have, or if you are running a deck that doesn't much care what threat it is at until 50, also nice to have.  

You're also stacking it up against the Outlands cards, which just is not a fair comparison.   It's a really good card compared to everything that is not outlands.


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#6 Serazu

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 07:56 AM

I agree with your post, in general. Concerning this:

 

It doesn't seem so great in your deck, you already have a ton of available card draw, and are relying on keeping your threat low.   You're putting the card in the wrong sort of deck, so of course you aren't impressed with it.  

 

I included it, since the sooner I establish my board position, the sooner I lock the quest. Much more draw is always better than more draw. It's just that I find that, in my deck, DK's cons outweigh the pros. I 'll try WANI instead. Less impressive (in my non-Dwarves deck, that is), but more trustworthy.



#7 Catastrophic09

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:31 AM

Initially I look at the Doomed cards as speeding up your resources by a round so for example; Deep Knowledge, you get two cards, which would have occurred in two rounds and you world have raised your threat by two so you just speed that process up so that's good compared to Legacy of Numenor where you speed it up by one round but raise your threat by 4!!? Deep Knowledge seems like a much better option.

I don't use DK in one player since there are better options, although it would be good for a crazy card draw deck, but multiplayer I think it gets better as players basically always want card draw and say the threat is worth it especially if those cards drawn can save you from a tough situation. Compared to another multiplayer card draw event, Campfire Tales, which cost 1 and each player only draws one card, I find DK very good and in my decks when playing with friends.

#8 ZanzibarLand

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:29 PM

I agree with your post, in general. Concerning this:
 

It doesn't seem so great in your deck, you already have a ton of available card draw, and are relying on keeping your threat low.   You're putting the card in the wrong sort of deck, so of course you aren't impressed with it.

 
I included it, since the sooner I establish my board position, the sooner I lock the quest. Much more draw is always better than more draw. It's just that I find that, in my deck, DK's cons outweigh the pros. I 'll try WANI instead. Less impressive (in my non-Dwarves deck, that is), but more trustworthy.

What's WANI? I can't work it out.

#9 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 12:04 AM

We Are Not Idle.


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#10 divinityofnumber

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:51 PM

I really like Deep Knowledge. I think that Doomed 2 is definitely worth it. I don't do much solo play, but I do use it even then. Excellent card. I feel as though 3x Elrond's Counsel mitigates the added threat adequately. 


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#11 Jban

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 02:33 AM

I don't play the card very often but I'm a huge fan of it, just as for Legacy of Numenor. The question will always be is it worth to raise X for these bonuses. I think they are but they should be played in the correct deck as mentioned before.

 

Outlands most of the time have a lack of resources instead of a lack of cards, especially when playing Beravor. So I think Deep Knowledge isn't the card you need, I would go for A Very Good Tale (and 30+ allies). About the reduction, I wouldn't go for it, It think it is not what you need inside an Outlands Deck, Outlands just need very many allies.

Suggested Heroes:

Hirluin - Theodred - Beravor/Bilbo 

Why these? You want to have at least 7 allies on the table before end of round 2. So Theodred's bonus resource is worth it, next to that he is leadership so Steward in round 1 if lucky. You start at 25/26 but you will be equipped before you reach 30. At that moment your own threat isn't that important anymore, because you can handle most situations without any problem. 

 

Bilbo is perhaps better than Beravor in soloplay because that first quest phase is very important and a passive effect might help you more than an active effect. And you are able to defend with Bilbo in that first 2 rounds against weak enemies, from round 2 on you should have an army that is large enough to take on the encounter deck.

 

Good luck!


Edited by Jban, 11 June 2014 - 02:39 AM.


#12 booored

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:16 AM

this card has a place in solo games for sure. Multi-Hand games it is a no brainer.. but in solo it is a great speed boost to your early game. We all know that as the game continues the player position gets disproportionately powerful in relation to the encounter deck that stays at a random, but generally stable power level. The faster your deck can get to the table the better it will be, and as I said above.. once you have the player board set up.. it is clear sailing. 

 

Solo players due to needing so much versatility are sometimes searching for key cards, in mulligan and beyond. Obvious examples would be Steward, Brand and Valinor. Often a solo player decks ability to win is directly linked to how fast the key cards get in your hand and out on the table.

 

This new doom card for a relatively cheap cost of some threat pulls 2 cards. So in a way it reduces your deck from 50 to 47. This is the way to think of it. This card is a threat cost to reduce the size of your deck.,. by 3 for each copy. That is HUGE! The zero cost is integral to its power, allowing you to play cards and draw cards at the start of turn 1. 

 

Runes is a similar card zero cost is a prime card for this, the problem with it is that you need to also discard, and often the choice for those early discards can be very difficult. The very nature of solo decks is that the cut is so hard that every card is needed, unless it is a key card and then you have 3 copies to ensure its draw. If you have them in hand you do not need to cast it in turn 1, and if you don't there is often inefficient targets for discard.. until latter in the game, when the draw is not as vital.

 

In short, if you're not playing this card then your doing it wrong. Well it depends on quest and deck.. but it is a very good card.


Edited by booored, 11 June 2014 - 04:17 AM.

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#13 Serazu

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:29 AM

Hmm. Perhaps I was too harsh towards DK. Ok guys, you convinced me to keep it in my deck. Thanks to everyone for his suggestions.

 

What I'm 100% positive about though and I'll never change my opinion concerning it is:

 

1. 3 DK in a solo deck is pure overkill. 2 is probably the sweet spot.

 

2. Bilbo is a mediocre hero next to Beravor. The gal is so much better than the little critter.



#14 divinityofnumber

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 11:52 AM

I run 3x in solo decks. Card advantage is huge. I want to make sure that I get DK in my opening hand (or close to it) so that I can establish some card advantage and board presence early on. The fact that it costs 0 is amazing. 


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#15 booored

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:55 PM

2. Bilbo is a mediocre hero next to Beravor. The gal is so much better than the little critter.

 

I think Bilbo is massively underrated by many players. He is a extremely good hero in the original days, though as turn1 quest needs have become so strong his 1 will is a little weak now... even so. You should really give him a try now and then. I still feel he is a very good hero.

 

Beravor is also a great card draw but her errata in fact makes her draw less than Bilbo over the course of a game. She needs UC to really go off. So you are probably using her a s a blocker and only tapping when the opportunity arises. So like Bilbo she is not contributing much to questing. Due to Bilbo's effect being passive he is pulling a card every turn. She pulls more cards if you get a unexpected courage on her, but then if you need that 2nd card. Bilbo also sort of needs a 2nd card. CStone to make him 3 will. Suddenly he is a great quester. The difference is that Bilbo's ability as it is always active means the deck smoothing is constant and aids in digging CStone while Beravor is sorta unable to help deck smoothing untill she gets UC ( or a good draw from the deck with no monsters)

 

I'm not saying she is bad, I am just saying Bilbo is massively underrated by many solo players.  


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#16 Serazu

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:57 AM

I 'm not saying that Bilbo is crap, just that he pales next to Beravor. When I do not opt for her ability, her stats contribute nicely to everything, plus she absorbs unopposed damage much better than Bilbo (there were quite many instances where Glorf or Hirluin couldn't take the damage and Beravor was there). As for UC, believe it or not, there's not in my deck any more. I simply can do without. Beravor shines alone. Bilbo is the one who needs support to bring more to the table. That said, I agree with you, that he may be underrated, though I strongly support the ranger between the two.



#17 Jban

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 09:25 AM

In multiplayer I find Beravor myself a lot more appealing than Bilbo because you can decide who gets cards and who doesn't. But In singleplayer I really believe in this little hobbit. 
 

I'll explain why.

 

1. He is cheaper

2. His effect is passive, so you get 2 more cards every round instead of 1.

3. It is nice that Beravor has decent statts. 2/2/2 isn't bad at all. But you can only use 1 of them.

 

Combo that runs very nice with Bilbo and doesn't run with Beravor.

Peace and Thought. This card is insane when you play Bilbo. For just 1 cost you get 7 new cards in the next round, while you only lose Bilbo and a 2nd Hero to play with in 1 round.

1 for Bilbo, 1 for new Round, 5 for Peace and Thought. This is even better than a mulligan, with Beravor this just doesn't look so appealing because you just get 4 cards (because Beravor can't draw herself)

 

But back to the original subject: Deep Knowledge. In single player this card wouldn't be my choice. I think the preceding options are far better and things I would worry about are how I could pay them. 

Greetz,

Jban

 

Ps: Always consider A Very Good Tale.

Pps: Edits --> Typo's


Edited by Jban, 12 June 2014 - 09:27 AM.


#18 leptokurt

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:06 AM

Beravor is no hobbit.

 

 

 

The end.


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