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#1 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:29 PM

Stolen from Exalted:

If a hit bypasses armor but not TB, target loses 1 wound

 

what do you think about it?



#2 Adeptus-B

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:31 PM

I think a minimum of 1 damage if armour is negated is a pretty good idea; I've been considering implementing that as a House Rule on my next (hypothetical) campaign.



#3 Kshatriya

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 12:42 PM

Think it gets pretty dangerous.



#4 ak-73

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 02:02 AM

I think it makes hordes much more dangerous but it is doable. Maybe you should rule that it does not cause Critical Damage though?

 

It's a thought that should be entertained anyway.

 

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#5 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 03:39 AM

Think it gets pretty dangerous.

yumyum.png AWESOME, ISN'T IT?

 

 

I think it makes hordes much more dangerous but it is doable. Maybe you should rule that it does not cause Critical Damage though?

 

It's a thought that should be entertained anyway.

 

Alex

Uhm yes, but what then? Stay invulnerable but with 0 Wounds?



#6 Kshatriya

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:34 PM

 



Think it gets pretty dangerous.

yumyum.png AWESOME, ISN'T IT?

 

 

Meh. I think the system is plenty lethal.

 

This actually doesn't affect (dangerous) hordes as much as it does solos. Though it does make whittled-down hordes still somewhat threatening and not just a thing to waste ammo on til it stops annoying you.


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#7 ak-73

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:43 PM



Uhm yes, but what then? Stay invulnerable but with 0 Wounds?

 

Until a real wound gets through? Yeah.

 

Alex


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#8 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:49 PM

This would imply that, if you are wearing no armour, every hit will injure you.

 

This is IMHO a bad idea both mechanically and conceptually.


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#9 ak-73

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:53 AM

Good point. It would mean that every hit would injure you enough to have an effect. There would be no scratches and grazing shots.

 

Alex


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#10 Calgor Grim

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 03:28 AM

...or "flesh wounds" Alex :).

 

Slight alteration of your idea but consider the way that BC/OW now handle righteous fury and consider applying it here which is allowing low damaging characters and NPCs to finally harm someone who is usually too armoured/tough to be beaten which is that a confirmed Righteous fury either does a roll on the crit table if it would have hurt them or one wound guaranteed if it wouldnt. This allows you that fluky hit...although it does mean you need to consider giving hoards and some NPCs the benefit of RF and that's a point of contention for some.


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#11 Kshatriya

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:56 AM

I implemented the OW RF rules. My players and I liked them a lot and got a lot more out of status effects than big numbers.



#12 Calgor Grim

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:34 PM

I implemented the OW RF rules. My players and I liked them a lot and got a lot more out of status effects than big numbers.

 

Problem I have with the OW RF rules is when you use it on really big things like daemons, master level Nids etc. I can't really see a greater daemon of Khorne being forced to suffer a 1D5 roll on the crit table when he's got a good hundred odd wounds left and is full of unholy rage. I mean impact critical to the head, suffering stunning and staggering, when you are a 15ft high engine of destruction...or a rending crit to the arm where they have to suffer blood loss and lose the use of a limb. Having them suffer that sort of wound to me seems a bit unfair to the boss.


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#13 ak-73

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:52 PM

The Stuff Of Nightmares trait, CG. Still, no fan of it.

 

Alex


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#14 Calgor Grim

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 01:08 AM

With that, the effect of the crit becomes nullified thus making that natural 10 almost worthless. However for sake of OP it makes for a better resolution to the problem and better IMO than the one point of damage if it ignores armour. Every combat would be much more dangerous if all you need to do is exceed 8 AP.

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#15 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 04:05 AM

well it could solve the problem of marines stage diving their way through hordes

#16 Calgor Grim

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 05:05 AM

Big enough hoards will do enough extra damage to easily rip through the armour and toughness of a marine. Besides the hoards might only serve as a barrier for the big nasty thing behind it who will usually be armed with something more painful.


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#17 Kshatriya

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:47 AM



well it could solve the problem of marines stage diving their way through hordes

Hordes are, at best, supposed to be a thing that provides some danger due to its mass and slows the KT from achieving its real objectives. it is not supposed to be the be-all end-all threat on the level of a hive tyrant.

 

If marines aren't stage-diving their way through hordes I think some rebalancing is needed. Especially as horde fights are usually the ones that get boring the fastest.



#18 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:59 PM

If marines aren't stage-diving their way through hordes I think some rebalancing is needed. Especially as horde fights are usually the ones that get boring the fastest.

Exactly.
If hordes could have the power to drain Wounds slowly and steadly, kill-teams would at least put some effort to wipe them.
Why spend Req in metal storm bullets if they serve almost solely to kill threatless uncountables?

This House Rule wouldn't apply to effective hordes, capable to deal real damage to Marines - like heavy weapon teams or high penetration clawed monstruosities.

Edited by [S]ir[B]ardiel, 09 June 2014 - 01:00 PM.


#19 Kshatriya

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 01:01 PM

A bunch of dudes with autoguns is threatening until they drop below about 20 Magnitude. Above that, +2d10 damage and undodgeable attacks can still make somewhat of a threat. If not a major one for higher armor/TB PCs like Techmarines.



#20 Lynata

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:00 PM

I think this is a question of personal preferences (how superheroic do you like your protagonists?) rather than mechanical issues. But hypothetically speaking ... if I were to implement this suggested houserule, rather than rebalancing the excessive resilience of the player characters together with other aspects of the game, I would probably have it apply only to combat between "solo" characters, not Hordes - simply because (iirc) attacks by a Horde cannot be dodged or parried, thus turning a merely potentially dangerous encounter into one with a much higher chance of leaving you severely weakened, if not actually killing you as a result of continuous Wounds-deduction coupled with the occasional burst damage.

 

I think if it were just the series of pin-pricks or the damage spike, it'd be okay. The combination, however, might be too much.

 

That being said, an alternative might be to use this suggestion to re-work the game's Horde rules, by replacing the controversial and dangerous, even anti-immersive damage spike of the bonus dice with a minimum Wounds damage that is probably a lot more reflective of a barrage of shots hitting weak spots than fourty lasguns suddenly morphing into a single multi-melta.

 

You can even have Magnitude factor into this: a Magnitude bonus of +1d10 could become a minimum damage of 1 Wound, and +2d10 would become 2 Wounds. If this sounds like a lot, you could also couple this minimum Wounds damage to a minimum damage roll: a Horde must roll 6+ on their damage die to trigger this effect?

 

... that is, if you think Hordes are too weak for the gameplay experience you are aiming for, of course.


Edited by Lynata, 09 June 2014 - 02:11 PM.

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