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#1 JBouthietteJr

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 09:25 PM

EDIT: Lists are updated with most recent preview. I expect this is all we'll have spoiled until the release.

 

Alright folks, time to get the thinking caps on, and a dozen tabs open to get a full picture of everything spoiled thus far for these expansions. The latest preview said we'd be getting...

 

1x each hero

1x each large disk

2x each medium disk

3x each small disk

 

Based on what I can scrape up from the previews and all the compiled data on here, BGG, and Sniper Troll, here's what we got, starting with Hammer & Hold:

 

Heroes:

Throgrim Grudgebearer

Grombindal the White Dwarf

Queen Helga

Chakax

Drycha

 

Small:

Karak Azul Warriors x3

Venerable Runesmith x3

Karaz-a-Karak Hammerers x3

Master Engineer x3

Skink Skirmishers x3

Athel Loren Dryads x3

Wardancers x3

Talabecland Halberdiers x3

Lothern Sea Guard x3

 

Medium:

Ancestor Statue x2

Salamander x2

Warrior Priests x2

Silver Helms x2

 

Large:

Runic Cannon

Flame Cannon

 

Grand total: 42 out of 50

 

 

Heroes:

Mannfred von Carstein

Isabella von Carstein

Heinrich Kemmler

Lokhir Fellheart

Ikit Claw

 

Small:

Skeleton Warriors x3

Dire Wolves x3

Tomb Banshee x3

Aspiring Necromancer x3

Grave Guard x3

Black Ark Corsairs x3

Karond Kar Harpies x3

Gutter Runners x3

Night Goblins x3

Goblin Doom Divers x3

Daemonettes x3

 

Medium:

Black Knights x2

Vargheists x2

[Vampire Count Disk]* x2

Ratling Gun x2

Doom Diver Catapult** x2

Screamers x2

 

Large:

Zombie Dragon

 

Grand total: 51 out of 51

 

*Looks like some sort of Black Coach

 

I'm guessing we'll get another small Empire disk, and maybe one or two more medium Dwarves, so 44-46. I'm also not convinced that's all we're getting for the Wood Elves and Lizardmen, but maybe that's just me being optimistic.

 

This may be a bit harder to do with Legions of Darkness since we haven't gotten the Skaven/Dark Elf preview, but we can tally that up when we get it.

 

Any thoughts? Anything I missed? Speculation on what those extra disks are going to be?


Edited by JBouthietteJr, 22 June 2014 - 01:01 PM.

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#2 Westonard

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 10:26 PM

Well, keep in mind that not every army in the core set had the same amount of units in it, case in point, there are 6 small wood elf disks and no medium or large on what you have listed which goes against what they say. I think that the pop up image for the dryads is wrong/off, and it might be the medium disk, which would keep with what they said they are releasing.

 

Using what you have listed, and what we can assume

 

3 small empire disks (42)

2 medium dwarf (44)

 

That leaves 6 disks, and if each gets a large

 

1 Lizardman (45)

1 Wood Elf (46)

1 High Elf (47)

1 Empire (48)

 

If there is a hero of each High Elf and Empire that are new, and looking at Hammer and Hold information, that would bump it to 50

 

If there is no new hero for Empire and High Elves, that leaves us with 48 disks in the H&H that we can safely assume

 

2 Medium Wood Elf (50)? Would again even that out, but once again that puts Wood Elves at having more disks than the LizardMen.

 

Assuming one of the wood elf disks is actually medium, my bet would be dryad, and the scanned image just doesn't show the size difference, that would leave us with 47 disks accounted for, 49 if there are two more heroes. 

 

Edit: And if the Wood Elves just get 6 small disks in lieu of 3 small, 2 medium, 1 large, that still leaves the disk count at 47 with no additional heroes Empire/High Elf side.


Edited by Westonard, 04 June 2014 - 10:29 PM.


#3 JBouthietteJr

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:48 AM

I hadn't even considered extra heroes for Empire and High Elves, but my (likely flawed) logic would be that if they intended to have four available heroes for the core races, they'd probably have included four Dwarf heroes to match up. We'll have to see.

 

As for the dryad comments, the multiple graphics in which you see their disk clearly shows them as small (at least to me). I don't want to be antagonistic, but I'm pretty certain on that. I don't think FFG ever said anywhere that each race would be getting 3x small 2x medium 1x large, just that of the disks they include, those are the ratios we'll get them. So if the Wood Elves do get a medium disk, they'll get two copies of it. That doesn't necessitate that they are getting them, though.

 

And with the latest preview for Legions of Darkness, I have a more expansive list for the confirmed Destruction disks we're getting:

 

 

Heroes:

Mannfred von Carstein

Isabella von Carstein

Heinrich Kemmler

Lokhir Fellheart

Ikit Claw

 

Small:

Skeleton Warriors x3

Dire Wolves x3

Tomb Banshee x3

Aspiring Necromancer x3

Grave Guard x3

Black Ark Corsairs x3

Karond Kar Harpies x3

Gutter Runners x3

Goblin Doom Divers x3

Daemonettes x3

 

Medium:

Black Knights x2

Vargheists x2

[Vampire Count Disk]* x2

Ratling Gun x2

Doom Diver Catapult** x2

[Chaos Disk] x2

 

Large:

Zombie Dragon

 

Grand total: 48 out of 51

 

*Looks like some sort of Black Coach

**Name not officially spoiled, but it can be assumed with the Goblin Doom Diver units.

 

 

So, this is what has been confirmed. We have already pointed out that not all races got the same number of units in the core set, so it can probably be assumed to be the same for these expansions. However, I assume they will mirror each other to a reasonable degree, so with that in mind, we'll probably see another large Vampire Count (49 out of 51). With two extra, we're probably going to see another medium disk, though I'm not sure where. Maybe another Skaven unit? One small and two mediums for Skaven and two smalls for Dark Elves might not be out of the question, even if the ratio is weird. Or perhaps another hero for Orcs and Chaos, like you pointed out for potentials in Hammer & Hold.

 

If we're still looking at these are similarly mirrored, going back to Hammer & Hold we should probably see at least two more medium Dwarf disks besides the Ancestor Statue, since the Vampire Counts have three mediums. VC's also have five small disks, while Dwarves have only four, so there's room for another small there (though I'm not so convinced about this one. Speculation to the nth degree). And if Skaven did somehow walk away with one small two mediums, Lizardmen probably would as well. Seeing Dark Elves with two smalls and no mediums (yet) only strengthens the argument that Wood Elves probably have two smalls.

 

A lot of possibilities here, but if I'm being realistic, I'm thinking it's reasonable to see another large VC, and those two empty slots are probably a large each for Orc and Chaos, a medium something (not entirely sure what) or, least likely to me but still a possibility, new Orc and Chaos heroes.

 

As for Hammer & Hold, my hypothesis going forward is the 39 confirmed disks will be joined by a small Empire and two more medium dwarves. The other four slots are a bit of a mystery to me, since there isn't a clean way to fit in one of my speculations from Legions of Darkness.

 

Thanks for the feedback Westonard, and I hope you'll come back with some thoughts on how these are shaping up with me, as well as anyone else who had the patient to slog through this!


Edited by JBouthietteJr, 09 June 2014 - 11:51 AM.

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#4 Westonard

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:13 PM

I am going on the assumption that the Orcs, High Elves, Chaos, and Empire will get new heroes, but the Dwarves/Undead will only start with 3 because of my theory about how the order will rotate. I think that the next expansion, using Wood Elves and Dark Elves as theory, will have Lizardmen and Dwarves and Skaven and Vampire Counts getting the one regiment treatment. At that point, the Vampire Counts and Dwarves would have 4 heroes, Lizardmen and Skaven would have 2, the core regiments might have five at that point, so ultimately they would wind up with more heroes than the expansions, unless they release more to balance out. 

 

This could all be wishful thinking on my part, and that there will only ever be 3 heroes per faction, but that really limits your tactics and would hurt the longevity of the game. Adding heroes with each expansion will change the composition of the game, and doing it alongside the other expansions, as part of what Hammer and Hold or Legions of Darkness bring allow them to focus on bringing that out, and once the 10 races are out with their core releases, they can look into other features of the game such as magic items, Khemri, Ogre Kingdoms, Brettonia, and a fifth race somewhere as a third 'mercenary' or neutral faction.



#5 Jedhead

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 05:14 PM

I am going on the assumption that the Orcs, High Elves, Chaos, and Empire will get new heroes, but the Dwarves/Undead will only start with 3 because of my theory about how the order will rotate. I think that the next expansion, using Wood Elves and Dark Elves as theory, will have Lizardmen and Dwarves and Skaven and Vampire Counts getting the one regiment treatment. At that point, the Vampire Counts and Dwarves would have 4 heroes, Lizardmen and Skaven would have 2, the core regiments might have five at that point, so ultimately they would wind up with more heroes than the expansions, unless they release more to balance out. 

 

This could all be wishful thinking on my part, and that there will only ever be 3 heroes per faction, but that really limits your tactics and would hurt the longevity of the game. Adding heroes with each expansion will change the composition of the game, and doing it alongside the other expansions, as part of what Hammer and Hold or Legions of Darkness bring allow them to focus on bringing that out, and once the 10 races are out with their core releases, they can look into other features of the game such as magic items, Khemri, Ogre Kingdoms, Brettonia, and a fifth race somewhere as a third 'mercenary' or neutral faction.

 

I hope the game makes it this far.  I would love to get Brettonia and Ogre armies up and running.  *Sigh* 

 

I guess for now I will just hope for a complete development of the Wood Elves and Skaven.  These expansions are pretty great, but the more I get, the more I want!


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#6 JBouthietteJr

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:57 PM

@Westonard very good points about sprinkling heroes in to expand tactics. My thought has been that after these two, we'd get something to bolster the mini armies introduced, then once everything is on a semi-level playing field, just give us boxes with a single regiment for each race. So Order boxes with a hero, 3x small 2x medium and 1x large for each race, and a Destruction box with the same. I definitely foresee more heroes, but I imagine they'd probably make a pretty big deal out of it if they were included. Doesn't seem like something they'd just include as a bonus. I do understand these expansions are focusing on new races, but something like new core race heroes would probably be a big boon for marketing these on top of everything.

 

@Jedhead I've always been a Tomb King guy myself, though I'm used to not seeing them get their due attention. That being said, I would absolutely kill for Ogres in this game.


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#7 Westonard

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:07 PM

Keep in mind they haven't shown what is being added to the core races. They haven't discussed it at all other than a comment about their forces being boosted. New Empire/High Elf heroes would steal the thunder from what they want people to be excited about The other thing here to think about is that if the other races won't get new heroes, either core ones or the dwarves/vampire counts in the next race boxes, the Skaven, Lizardmen, Dark Elf, and Wood Elf focused boxes would have fewer heroes, which would force you to buy an expansion to get the full hero list or play at a disadvantage, which is not something that FFG seems to be in a habit of doing.

 

I haven't played their LCGs, my only experience is with X-wing, and their board games, but given how the game is set up, once they have their 10 races set up I could see single race 'boosters' somewhat like they did with the PoD Mansions of Madness story expansions. 

 

Edit: A player who has no interest in Dwarves or Vampire Counts could likely pass on these expansions, and buy the individual armies or the new Empire/High Elf forces when the expansions release and Ebay or Amazon list them piecemeal. But forcing people to do that or buy another stand alone expansion to get a full hero list for the next set of races that get a focus would be a tremendous snafu on part of FFG and probably drive people away from it, or hurt FFG sales while boosting people who want to buy it piecemeal.


Edited by Westonard, 09 June 2014 - 09:11 PM.


#8 Veruca

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:24 PM

 

@Jedhead I've always been a Tomb King guy myself, though I'm used to not seeing them get their due attention. That being said, I would absolutely kill for Ogres in this game.

 

I would love to see Tomb Kings as well. Right now, my favorite army are probably the Skaven, but Tomb kings are close second. I feel that, should they add the Tomb Kings for Destruction and maybe Bretonnia for Order, the game would be 'complete' with those 12 races.

 

I've only played a few games, but I'm completely hooked. I've decided to go all in with this game. I've already ordered a second Core Set and pre-ordered 2 of each upcoming expansion. I've always wanted to play a wargame, but seeing how expensive they are (and not to mention the room they take up for storage, Warhammer Diskwars is a gift sent by the gods. :P

 

Some might say that a 2nd of each is overkill, but it's not just for the units that I'm doing it. You can so much more terrain variations with a 2nd copy. Like have the Watchtower AND the Windmill on the field at the same time.

 

So, if any of the devs are checking in here: Tomb Kings... pretty please with a cherry on top. :D

 

As for Future expansions, I could see race-specific packs work... but hopefully not in the near-future (as I'm hoping they'll focus on fleshing out the smaller armies first). My wish is to see large scale battles with 5 regiments in each army (and without the need of looking to other races to make that happen).



#9 Jedhead

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:22 AM

 

 I've always wanted to play a wargame, but seeing how expensive they are (and not to mention the room they take up for storage, Warhammer Diskwars is a gift sent by the gods. :P

 

 

Yes!  This is my sentiment exactly!  The price, play time, storage...I just love diskwars, and I could never afford the price or the time commitment for a full-on mini wargame. 


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#10 JBouthietteJr

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:38 AM

And with that latest preview, we now have all of the disks spoiled for Legions of Darkness, with the inclusion of Night Goblins. I'll update the lists later when I have a chance.
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#11 Westonard

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:21 AM

I still think there are things that haven't officially been spoiled, looking at what we know, and what we know now, we are looking at 42 disks that we know about or can assume with a second Dwarf Medium. That does mean I don't think there will be new heroes, since they would have mentioned it with this most recent reveal. But, that also has eight disks we know nothing about.

 

This does make me worried that two of each expansion might not be necessary and that it is a waste of 40 dollars. Ah well, I will know later this week/next week hopefully.



#12 JBouthietteJr

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:51 AM

I'll still pick up two of each. There are enough guys I'd like more of to justify it, I think. Particularly multiples of the large disks, more Doom Divers, more Skeletons for Kemmler, and enough small disks for the minor races so that once they're expanded, there'll be a good selection for them (5 or 6 Wardancers in a Wood Elf army? Yes please.)


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#13 Westonard

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:16 AM

xD I had completely forgot about skeletons for Kemmler. Was looking at the supplemental stuff going "If they are this complete..." Granted, I was thinking about  a doomdiver barrage, would require both Doom Diver Catapults, they are one shotty or two shotty for heroes/whatever else, so it would require some timing, and a -really- gimmicky army, but Azhag with two Doom Diver Catapults, and 6 Doom Divers, every round launching two Divers for three rounds to take out heroes and elites or threats to your second regiment that is a screen.



#14 JBouthietteJr

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:23 AM

Azhag with two catapults, three divers, and a boar boy. Grom with three divers and two boar boys. Ultimate Impact crash-boom-fest, with 30 damage raining from the sky, three heavy cavalry and two nasty heroes. If my girlfriend wasn't so attached to Orcs, I'd run this list every day of the week.


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#15 Westonard

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:26 AM

Have to be careful not to suggest it to her, otherwise she might run it.



#16 JBouthietteJr

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:34 AM

Already suggested it to her. We typically play three regiment games, so I' ll leave her to figure out some good support for these crashers. And I'm already thinking of how to counter it, probably with a swarmy Vampire army, where Impact will be wasted on hordes of Skeletons. Maybe two Vampire regiments, and a Chaos one to get a Bloodthirster in the mix.


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#17 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:03 PM

I'm not sure I like the Doom Diver myself.  I'm worried it's too fragile, and too expensive.  5 impact is nice, but then you are left without a disk, you'd need to make most of your regiment out of just the catapult and divers to really get use out of it, and if your opponent draws the straight casualties objective, you are playing into their hands by killing your own units.  Granted, at 5 impact, the trade may be worth it...  I don't know.  I'll play wait and see I guess.  I'll certainly try it out.  But it does look like the Divers are reinforced normally, meaning they need to sit around a round before they become useful and at 2 toughness they look to be easy pickings for ranged units.  Especially High Elves, using Winds.


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#18 Westonard

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:29 PM

I do think in this case it would be better if the Diver worked differently, allowing you to reinforce it without an activation token, it will take some playing to make them work, but they might. My initial thought was Waaagh! to give them relentless, but double checking it would be pointless since they die on impact, rather than the  melee phase, so you can't do bombing runs.


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#19 Veruca

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:55 PM

Hmm, so there will be no extra Heroes for the existing armies? So 3 regiments per race will still remain the maximum for now. Bummer. :(



#20 JBouthietteJr

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 12:59 PM

It's a bummer, but I wasn't really expecting any. Fingers crossed for next wave of expansions!

 

Also, list edited to show that Dwarf Flame Cannons are mediums, not large. Tally is updated to 43 out of 50, which likely means we should to see:

 

1 large, 3 mediums

 

OR

 

1 large, 2 smalls

 

OR

 

2 mediums, 1 small

 

Or not. Flame Cannon definitely seems large in the graphics, but it doesn't have the Elite icon next to its name, which has been standard for large disks so far.


Edited by JBouthietteJr, 22 June 2014 - 01:02 PM.

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