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The Alchemist, invincible?


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#1 raphaman

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 05:06 PM

Hello!

Yesterday I played with the Alchemist, and the Alternative Ending card: "Merchants' Guild". So it was pretty good for me. Here is what happened: I was in the City, in the magic shop. I looked at the card "scroll" and thought: "This is useless for me, I can already do it... But wait... It is a magic object!" Guess what I did... I bought one, alchemised it, I bought it again, alchemised it again, bought it again etc. Thanks to the Alternative Ending card, I was able to have as many gold as I wanted to! So I became invincible, because I could heal every lifes I lost... So I was invincible, and the game became too easy: I could buy everything I needed, I could always have 3 spells...
To conclude, we will probably never play with him again, or maybe change a bit the rules.

What do you think now? Do you think I cheated? What rules should we change for the alchemist now?

Have a great day!
Raphaman

Edited by raphaman, 04 June 2014 - 05:07 PM.


#2 Artaterxes

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 05:24 PM

You can't repeat encounters. Buying an object, then transmuting it, then buying again would be considered repeating the encounter of the Magic Emporium every time you buy something. You have to make all your purchases in one go, then do what you will with those purchases.

 

But yes, this is a well-known exploit of the Alchemist. You shouldn't change any rules. All you should change is now when someone draws the Alchemist and you are using the City expansion, everyone gangs up on him.


Edited by Artaterxes, 04 June 2014 - 06:14 PM.


#3 raphaman

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 05:27 PM

My only question about this was: am I allowed to buy something, to alchemise it and to buy it again during the same turn?

#4 DomaGB

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 05:31 PM

There has been discussions on this here. I don't think there is an official ruling on this but most people play you can't make any more purchases that turn after you alchemize something.

RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#5 raphaman

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 05:44 PM

But it actually doesn't change a lot... You still earn 6 golds per turn (if there are 3 scrolls, cause I forgot)... So it still is easy for the alchemist. I think the only way to beat him would be that someone buys all the scrolls before the alchemist, or to gang up on him.

#6 Artaterxes

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:11 PM

Yes, you are right. Once you have completed an encounter, the encounter cannot be revisited or redone. The "encounter" for the Magic Emporium would be choosing all the objects you want to buy, then buying them all. You can't, for example, buy a few, transmute them (e.g. with an Alchemist follower or character), then buy more.

 

So the most you can do in one turn is buy 3 Scrolls for 3G and then transmute them for 9G. You will have to make another loop through the City to repeat this.


Edited by Artaterxes, 04 June 2014 - 06:11 PM.


#7 raphaman

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:18 PM

Oh? Once you are in a shop, you can't go back? E.g. I am in the Magic Emporium, I roll a die, and I make 4, I am not allowed to come back in?

#8 Artaterxes

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:11 PM

Nope, pg. 5 of the rulebook says you can't re-enter a shop on the same turn!



#9 raphaman

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:22 PM

Ok thank you very much! I was probably too lazy to read the rulebook!

#10 DomaGB

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:39 PM

yeah I was gonna come back and share you have to leave and re-loop the city, so while its powerful it's not overly so in many people's minds, but some still think it is :ph34r:


RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#11 raphaman

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:41 PM

Yes, so he is not that powerful, but he still is very powerful. So, finally, I cheated, because I wasn't allowed to come back in the shop!

#12 DomaGB

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:56 PM

That's alright my son did the same thing till I came here and found out otherwise!


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RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#13 Granville

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 10:17 PM

We've had it happen in 6 player games quite a bit  and Alchemist is pretty much kill on sight, but you have to whack him of 4 Life between his turn or he's going to buy it all back on his turn. Dont forget if you're going to run in circles around the city, you can buy nasty items on your circuit too, you only need the three gold for the scrolls. This leaves you with 6, so might as well pick up that Flail or try and get your pet of choice.

 

Currently the most broken thing in the game right now, due to the fact that it's reliable and easy to accomplish in a game designed around very random variables.

 

With experienced tables you will see Death and the Werewolf making circuits around the City faster than the Alchemist, Death isn't so reliable at hitting him, but Werewolf will catch him every time.

 

....The thing is Alchemist can buy back his fate too....



#14 Uvatha

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 04:53 AM

 

 

Currently the most broken thing in the game right now, due to the fact that it's reliable and easy to accomplish in a game designed around very random variables.

Oh PLEASE.... We have been down this road :).


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#15 Rigmaster

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 12:07 AM

Isn't there a pet that enables you to walk 1 step instead of moving normally. Otherwise there's aleways the poltergeist. If you take the time to enter the city with it you can buy your scrolls every second turn when you get there. Then you can exit the city from the square you can "rent a raft" (can't remember what it's called right now) and get rid of the poltergeist quickly before headin for the crown.

Then again; how fun is it to play this way? Is it really all about winning for some of you...?

#16 DomaGB

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 01:17 AM

Yes there are ways to make your movement 1, and further abuse this, but again that isn't so common. You can even roll a 1, and visit the shop again. But because of all these things being uncommon, this makes him less threatening.


RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#17 Uvatha

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 02:08 AM

Yes there are ways to make your movement 1, and further abuse this, but again that isn't so common. You can even roll a 1, and visit the shop again. But because of all these things being uncommon, this makes him less threatening.


Hmmmm? I was under the impression once a shop has been vistied a player cant step out and back in again? Or is that in the same turn? Gotto look that one up.

#18 Artaterxes

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 07:48 AM

He just means you leave a shop by rolling a 1. On your next turn, you can re-enter it.
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#19 Uvatha

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:40 PM

yeah, it has to be a 1 though anything more and you can't.






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