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SURPRISE round


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#61 HappyDaze

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:41 PM

I really wish that initiative was always based on Vigilance with characters that are prepared (like the guys setting an ambush) getting upgrades on the Vigilance check equal to their ranks in Cool.

 

This would mean that it's always an advantage to be prepared rather than the current system where someone with Vigilance > Cool seems to prefer walking into things unprepared.


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#62 Hedgehobbit

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 07:19 PM

Over in the thread "FFG Developer Answered Questions" at <http://community.fan...ered-questions/>, they actually address this issue.  According to them, there is no surprise round.

 

I can't find anything about surprise in that thread. 

 

 

EDIT: a surprise round is unwarranted in this system because the dice already take care of that for you. The game isn't designed for it, and it eschews the narrative in favor wargamey mechanics IMO. No bueno. 

 

I guess this is the core issue. I see EotE's initiative system as a wargamey mechanic. I was really surprised when I first read the rules since they were so similar to 3e/4e's and not at all what I'm used to in other narrative games. 



#63 HappyDaze

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 07:27 PM

 

EDIT: a surprise round is unwarranted in this system because the dice already take care of that for you. The game isn't designed for it, and it eschews the narrative in favor wargamey mechanics IMO. No bueno. 

 

I guess this is the core issue. I see EotE's initiative system as a wargamey mechanic. I was really surprised when I first read the rules since they were so similar to 3e/4e's and not at all what I'm used to in other narrative games. 

 

FFG's Star Wars RPGs are a hybrid between traditional RPGs and fully narrative RPGs. They really don't fall neatly into one or another, and rules arguments on these forums often arise when one direction or the other is taken to an extreme.


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#64 PrettyHaley

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 02:53 AM

Is there a polite way to ask someone to stop helping?.


I actually have a lot of experience with that! My favorites are:

"I think I've got this but thank you."
"I need to learn this on my own but thank you."
"I'd really like to finish this on my own but thank you."
"I really appreciate your helpfulness but I have to be able to do this myself."

And always add, "If I do get into trouble, I'm glad you'll be here to help."
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#65 edisung

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 03:08 AM

Is there a polite way to ask someone to stop helping?

 

Anyway, I see the whole Cool vs. Vigilance as a bonus to the system. Yes, you might have a higher Vigilance than Cool. This tells me you aren't an overtly aggressive person. Like say a Jedi. Jedi get bonus blue dice to Vigilance. I'm hoping that Sith get bonus blue dice to Cool.

Why would a Sith get a bonus in Cool?  That doesn't track as I wouldn't describe them as being emotionally centered.  Mechanically Jedi and Sith are the same in RAW except for the flip regarding black pips instead of white used on force die.

 

 

I really wish that initiative was always based on Vigilance with characters that are prepared (like the guys setting an ambush) getting upgrades on the Vigilance check equal to their ranks in Cool.

 

This would mean that it's always an advantage to be prepared rather than the current system where someone with Vigilance > Cool seems to prefer walking into things unprepared.

 

 

I guess not everyone wants to be a boy scout...


Edited by edisung, 07 June 2014 - 03:12 AM.


#66 bradknowles

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:51 AM

I really wish that initiative was always based on Vigilance with characters that are prepared (like the guys setting an ambush) getting upgrades on the Vigilance check equal to their ranks in Cool.

 

As player, I kind of wish this, too.  But then maybe I'm being too wargamey.

 

 

This would mean that it's always an advantage to be prepared rather than the current system where someone with Vigilance > Cool seems to prefer walking into things unprepared.

 

The irony is that I know people who are exactly this way.  You throw them into something unprepared, and they do fine.  You give them time to prep, and they get all jittery and nervous.

 

 

Ultimately, the fact that I actually know people who are exactly this way is why I don't have a problem with the game choosing to mirror this fact in their mechanics.

 

Regardless of the fact that it puts my Wookiee at a disadvantage, that just means I need to buy his Cool skill up a few ranks.


Unless stated otherwise, these are just my personal opinions about how I feel things should work.  Even if I quote chapter and verse of a particular rulebook, only the part that's quoted is likely to actually be official.  Each GM will have to decide for themselves what rules they will use and which ones they won't, and how they will interpret the rules they do use.  That is their right -- and their responsibility.

"A FFG Star Wars Index" by Aahzmandius_Karrde: <http://community.fan...ar-wars-index/> | Github project at <https://github.com/k...rde/ffg_swrpg/>

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#67 Krieger22

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 02:18 PM

Does it really matter whether it's Vigilance or Cool? Unless your whole group is great at Vigilance but sucks at Cool, it shouldn't really become an issue seeing as how anyone can act in any initiative slot on their side.


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#68 Col. Orange

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 03:10 AM

I am at the very opposite of Rules Lawyer, whatever that is...

 

A rules hippy?


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#69 Aservan

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:29 AM

 

I am at the very opposite of Rules Lawyer, whatever that is...

 

A rules hippy?

 

The person who's only there for the free food?

 

Sith should get a bonus to Cool because: they like to set ambushes, they are in touch with their emotions and have no trouble being aggressive, they are patient as they set things up for their inevitable victory, and most importantly – they look cool.


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#70 PrettyHaley

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:53 PM

Not a rules hippy!! And it's my house so the food's kinda free, anyway!

I've had the rules read to me and demonstrated but I haven't poured over them myself the way I'd like so I try to stay out of rules discussions since I can't quote rules or give page references the way I see people do.
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#71 Carahue

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 01:03 PM

This is from the Beginner Game's Example of Play:

 

Anne (GM): You're at Medium range so it's an Average difficulty shot.
 
Beth (Oskara): We're catching them totally by surprise. Should I get a Boost die for that?
 
Anne (GM): Good point. Go ahead and add a Boost die.

 

 

This suggests that catching someone by surprise gives a Boost die to attack. Strangely enough, the text of the actual encounter  (after the example) in the Beginner Game doesn't suggest anything like that.

 

What do you think?



#72 awayputurwpn

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 04:46 PM

I think that it reinforces the idea that it is a suggestion, and an example of a player creatively interpreting the situation.

"Surprise gives you a boost die" is a good idea, but if it becomes a standard, then it can lead to staleness and lack of creativity. Keeping the situation open to "narrative" interpretation makes the game more fun for all, IMHO.

Situation 1: surprise grants a Boost die to all attacks or initiative checks
Situation 2: surprise imposes setback dice on enemy attacks, or even initiative checks
Situation 3: surprise grants favorable initiave order placement, foregoing the usual roll
Situation 4: surprise grants an automatic advantage to any checks against surprised enemies
Situation 5: surprise means no enemy defense ratings for the first round
Situation 6: surprise lets you downgrade the difficulty of attacks (so the Adversary talent is less of an issue)
Situation 7: surprise grants you an extra free maneuver (not to exceed 2 maneuvers per turn)
Situation 8: surprise lets you raise your wound or strain threshold by +1 or +2 for the encounter.
And so on.
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#73 Daeglan

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 05:47 PM

Also the PCs roll cool. that bad guys roll vigilance. 






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