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If You Ain't Cheatin' You Ain't Tryin'


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#21 jasonkw

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:09 PM

 

The guy who took second at the tourney I attended was slow rolling the whole day. It was infuriating. 

 

He was running dual falcons, so all he had to do was make the rounds last long enough that his opponent couldn't take either of them down.

 

I should have pestered him more to hurry up since he was clearly trying to draw things out in order to win.

D-bag, for sure.

 

Once it became apparent that that was what your opponent was doing, I would congratulate the guy on his win, gather up my stuff, and get up and walk away. Life is way too short to sit down for 60+ minutes and play an infuriatingly frustrating game like that. I'd rather spend the time checking out the game store or peruse the comics, or anything, really, then sit through a game like that. To each their own, I guess....

 

And yes, I have done that a Heroscape tournament once. Was actually a pretty cool feeling.

 

I hear ya. I decided that if for some reason it was me and him in the finals I would just forfeit. It was absolutely no fun playing with him. Several other people in the tourney said about the same thing when I described what he was doing. I'm hoping he just runs out of people to play with once enough people get wise to his lame "tactics".

 

He's actually a user in these forums.


Rebel: A-Wing (x2), X-Wing (x4), YT-1300 (x1), Y-Wing (x1), B-Wing (x1), HWK (x1)
Imperial: TIE Fighter (x7), TIE Interceptor (x2), Firespray (x1), Lambda Shuttle (x1) TIE Bomber (x1)

 


#22 R2ShihTzu

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:12 PM

I played a guy in Imdaar that was blatantly cheating, most obviously when he tried to check firing arcs on various ships so as to determine who should get the Swarm Tactics bonus. I called him on it immediately, and he tried to B.S. about being able to check arcs, just not range. I called bull and made him stop. He rolls his eyes and accuses me of not playing for fun and "just to win." Apparently to these d-bags, "fly casual" is something to be abused by not playing by the rules and expecting to get away with it. Just speak up. If it is an honest mistake, it can be fixed. If not, cheaters are cowards who back down, so they'll quit if you stand your ground.

Edited by R2ShihTzu, 05 June 2014 - 09:13 PM.

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There are no old TIE fighter pilots.

#23 Keffisch

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:11 AM

Or argue their case, ad infinitum.



#24 nurglez

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:01 AM

I've noticed that not many people use crit tokens, and after a few games where I had forgotten mine, I now always use them.

 

I'm normally pretty casual about playing, even in tournaments. if we cant decide on a ship being in a fire arc I'll normally suggest rolling to decide, rather then calling a TO over.

 

However, I'm also pretty good at remembering most things, and always bring a spare damage deck and asteroids in my tokens box (mainly cos a friend of mine shares my collection so if we both attend a tournament he'll need to have a deck).

 

If I were to play vs someone using generics without numbers, I would ask where theirs were, and then offer them mine if they didnt have any, to help reduce confusion/cheating.

 

Ultimately, in any game, some people feel the need to cheat, I have accidently cheated my opponent out of a win in 40k (by miscounting victory points) and I've also cheated myself out of a win (by miscounting victory points), really shouldnt play while hungover.

 

In the original post's example, I would try and notify the TO as soon as possible.


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ships owned

Empire : 3 Firesprays, 7 Tie fighters, 1 Tie advanced, 5 Tie interceptors, 3 Tie bombers, 2 Lambdas, 2 Defenders, 2 Phantoms, 1 Decimator

Rebel scum: 5 X wings, 4 A wings, 3 B wings, 3 Y wing, 2 E wing, 2 Z's, 2 Hwk, 1 Falcon, 1 Outrider,1 Transport, 1 Tantive


#25 Khyros

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:55 AM

I rarely use numbers.  But I also make sure there's a way to differentiate between the two.

 

For example, I've repainted 2 X wings, 3 Y wings, 2 A wings, and 2 B wings, which means that I have 3-4 variations of a ship (because I can also use the unpainted version, or the alt version in the case of the X)...  And just in case that doesn't fulfill it completely, I'll use two different heights (the tall X wing is the top card, the short X wing is the bottom card) of the ships.  

 

Given, if anyone asked me to, I'd gladly throw on tokens to prevent any confusion / accusations of cheating.  

 

And the few times that I play imps and don't have any repaints, I always use numbers.


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#26 UnfairBanana

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 02:38 PM

I rarely use numbers.  But I also make sure there's a way to differentiate between the two.

 

For example, I've repainted 2 X wings, 3 Y wings, 2 A wings, and 2 B wings, which means that I have 3-4 variations of a ship (because I can also use the unpainted version, or the alt version in the case of the X)...  And just in case that doesn't fulfill it completely, I'll use two different heights (the tall X wing is the top card, the short X wing is the bottom card) of the ships.  

 

Given, if anyone asked me to, I'd gladly throw on tokens to prevent any confusion / accusations of cheating.  

 

And the few times that I play imps and don't have any repaints, I always use numbers.

We often use the numbers to indicate pilot skill, because our table sits a little high. It also helps us never forget when a ship has Veteran Instincts on. When it comes to multiple ships, we use the front for PS and the back to differentiate between ships. Or we use the ABCD token things that came with some of the huge ships, because they all fit and we never play scenarios. Might as well use 'em for something


Rebels: 3 A-wings, 3 B-wings, 2 E-wing, 4 X-Wings, 2 Y- Wings, 2 Z-95s, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300, 1 YT-2400, 1 GR-75 Space whale, 1 CR-90 Corvette

 

Empire: 6 TIE/LN, 4 TIE Interceptors, 2 TIE Bombers, 1 TIE Advanced, 2 TIE Defender, 2 TIE Phantom, 2 Firesprays, 1 Lambda, 1 VT-49


#27 Explosive Ewok

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 12:36 AM

We often use the numbers to indicate pilot skill...

 

That's actually a really cool idea. I might steal that someday.


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#28 DavidWa

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:26 AM

until they have a chess clock added to tournament play ... the clock issue will never end.


Rebel Fleet- 15 X-wings, 8 A-wings, 6 Y-wings, 8 B-Wings, 6 HWK-290, 4 YT-1300, 6 E-wings, 8 Z95, 3 Transport, 3 Corvette.

Empire Fleet- 24 Tie Fighters, 6 Tie Adv, 8 Tie Int, 6 Tie Bombers, 4 Firespray, 4 Lambda Shuttle, 6 Defenders, 6 Phantoms


#29 Flamestalker

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:02 AM

The rules concerning placement of maneuvre dials is on page 6 of the core rulebook, under the Choosing a Maneuver heading. 


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Yub, Yub, Commander. :D


#30 Parakitor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 05:37 AM

One minor bugbear of mine is the fact that loads of people dont seem to ever use critical hit tokens and because of that, missed important rules so many times. I do use them which actually works against me. It just seems odd that people wouldnt think of not using say a focus token but i can count in one hand the amount of people who use critical tokens.

I agree. I always use critical hit tokens. Last game was a friendly and I decided it wasn't important, but it was critical. He made a pretty poor maneuver choice because he forgot that Soontir was not PS 0. My bad! I'll never make that mistake again!

 

 

I rarely use numbers.  But I also make sure there's a way to differentiate between the two.

 

For example, I've repainted 2 X wings, 3 Y wings, 2 A wings, and 2 B wings, which means that I have 3-4 variations of a ship (because I can also use the unpainted version, or the alt version in the case of the X)...  And just in case that doesn't fulfill it completely, I'll use two different heights (the tall X wing is the top card, the short X wing is the bottom card) of the ships.  

These are good ideas, but without numbers, how do you match the ship with its card?


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#31 Forensicus

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 07:16 AM

 

One minor bugbear of mine is the fact that loads of people dont seem to ever use critical hit tokens and because of that, missed important rules so many times. I do use them which actually works against me. It just seems odd that people wouldnt think of not using say a focus token but i can count in one hand the amount of people who use critical tokens.

I agree. I always use critical hit tokens. Last game was a friendly and I decided it wasn't important, but it was critical. He made a pretty poor maneuver choice because he forgot that Soontir was not PS 0. My bad! I'll never make that mistake again!

 

 

I rarely use numbers.  But I also make sure there's a way to differentiate between the two.

 

For example, I've repainted 2 X wings, 3 Y wings, 2 A wings, and 2 B wings, which means that I have 3-4 variations of a ship (because I can also use the unpainted version, or the alt version in the case of the X)...  And just in case that doesn't fulfill it completely, I'll use two different heights (the tall X wing is the top card, the short X wing is the bottom card) of the ships.  

These are good ideas, but without numbers, how do you match the ship with its card?

 

 

I've experienced others doing the same and saying/stating: "The tallest is the one to the left and then in degreasing order to the right"

While this is a semi legit personal preference I would NOT accept it in a top tier game/tourney. And basically the rules flat out tell you to use the supplied numbers and to use the grey/black sides for mirror matches. So there is

  • no reason to come up with another "genius" way of doing it
  • and any such "genius way" is not allowed in the rules so just use the numbers!!!

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2014 X-Wing Regional Champion (CPH, Denmark)

 Fleet: 1 x [YT-1300] -  5 x [X-Wing] - 4 x [A-Wing] -2 x [Y-Wing] - 2 x [HWK-290] - 4 x [B-Wing] - 1 x [Transport] - 1 x [Tantive IV]: 2 x [Firespray-31] - 8 x [Tie Fighters] - 6 x [Tie Interceptor] - 3 x [Tie Advanced] - 3 x [TIE-Bomber] - 3 x [Lambda Shuttle]

"Hangars": BattleFoam P.A.C.K. 432 & P.A.C.K. 216 with custom & pluck foams "Battlefields": 3 x Gale Force 9 Mats


#32 barabelsftw

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:24 AM

 

One minor bugbear of mine is the fact that loads of people dont seem to ever use critical hit tokens and because of that, missed important rules so many times. I do use them which actually works against me. It just seems odd that people wouldnt think of not using say a focus token but i can count in one hand the amount of people who use critical tokens.

So... It just dawned on me that those are crit tokens. My buddies and I have been using them as generic damage tokens, keeping damage cards with the ship cards and tokens with the mini... That explains my frustration that not all the ships come with enough damage tokens to completly destroy the ship. :rolleyes:


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#33 Cremate

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 06:17 PM

I feel fortunate that I've never needed to involve the TO - in fact I've never seen anyone, my table or other tables, needing to involve the TO for rulings at the tournaments I've been at.

And if anything the only tendency I've noticed has been for nearly everyone I've played to be almost too kind in ruling in favour of their opponents when there were doubts about a firing arc or a range.

Such horribly kind people almost make me doubt in the Empire and the Dark Side. Almost.


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#34 Blail Blerg

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:52 AM

 

We often use the numbers to indicate pilot skill...

 

That's actually a really cool idea. I might steal that someday.

 

 

An organizational thing too.  I have only the ID from 1 to 12 in my box.  (In case of VI or Jan).  That's all the IDs you'll ever need.  

 

I also only keep 8 sets of target locks out, with another bunch in a little bag but placed below my pile of stress tokens.  All you usually need.  And I keep the rest of the unused stuff in the core set box instead of my storage/tackle box.  

 

---

 

Notes on TO:

I play MTG.  I know everyone's heard this all before, but MTG's way of dealing with Judges and tournaments is so much more cleaner and friendlier and clean-cut/crisp.  The rules are all figured out and there's no such thing as TO decision.  The Judge is simply supposed to follow the rules as they are, based on the level of competition/casual. 

I still think any TO determinations are incredibly silly and non-uniform.  

 

One good thing about MTG's Judge system is that it encourages new players to ask questions of the judge or ask them to come over and look if they feel suspicious about something.  People at casual tournaments are at ease with calling for a judge when needed.  Its a very nice thing to see.  

 

One personal pet peeve though is playing against judges.  I don't really have a lot of fun in those games.   


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#35 Yipikayey

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:21 AM

The problem with the "fly casual" will be always the same. People think "flying casual" is playing however they play with their buddies, and they get used so much to play that way, that when they play with a stranger they are actually playing the game wrong to dismay of the stranger that's put in a awkward position between calling the guy out and being "that guy", or continue to play with the homebred rules the other guy is using. It is a pretty sh*tty position to be.

 

The best way to maintain the "fly casual" attitude, is to play following the rules by the book. Always. It's not about giving you leeway, but keeping a healthy attitude towards the game you are playing, and it is obvious that it doesn't work the way these people think it should work.


Edited by Yipikayey, 13 July 2014 - 08:24 AM.

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#36 Forensicus

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:41 AM

 

 

We often use the numbers to indicate pilot skill...

 

That's actually a really cool idea. I might steal that someday.

 

 

An organizational thing too.  I have only the ID from 1 to 12 in my box.  (In case of VI or Jan).  That's all the IDs you'll ever need.  

 

I also only keep 8 sets of target locks out, with another bunch in a little bag but placed below my pile of stress tokens.  All you usually need.  And I keep the rest of the unused stuff in the core set box instead of my storage/tackle box.  

 

---

 

Notes on TO:

I play MTG.  I know everyone's heard this all before, but MTG's way of dealing with Judges and tournaments is so much more cleaner and friendlier and clean-cut/crisp.  The rules are all figured out and there's no such thing as TO decision.  The Judge is simply supposed to follow the rules as they are, based on the level of competition/casual. 

I still think any TO determinations are incredibly silly and non-uniform.  

 

One good thing about MTG's Judge system is that it encourages new players to ask questions of the judge or ask them to come over and look if they feel suspicious about something.  People at casual tournaments are at ease with calling for a judge when needed.  Its a very nice thing to see.  

 

One personal pet peeve though is playing against judges.  I don't really have a lot of fun in those games.   

 

 

 

I have VERY little knowledge about MtG but can one really compare the 2 games in this respect?

I mean the reason there is a TO is first of all (as the name implies) to have a person organizing the tournament and (almost just secondly) to have someone that can be called for in case of needing an impartial evaluation/decision regarding arc/range/overlap/rule decision/questioning etc? Sort of like in soccer or football? In MtG the judge (I think but do not know) is there to ensure rules are followed but there are no "can I see him in my arc?" or "Is it a Range 3 shot?" decisions lin the same way, or is there?

 

I have experienced a few players having more or less severe "issues" with simply respecting/accepting the TO's decisions and keep arguing it. This is TOTALLY unacceptable and to me it seems like the player haven't bothered to read the tournament rules:

 

The Tournament Organizer (“TO”) is the final authority for all card interpretations, and may overrule the FAQ when, in the TO’s opinion, a mistake or error is discovered. 

 

 

It is as cut and dry as that.


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2014 X-Wing Regional Champion (CPH, Denmark)

 Fleet: 1 x [YT-1300] -  5 x [X-Wing] - 4 x [A-Wing] -2 x [Y-Wing] - 2 x [HWK-290] - 4 x [B-Wing] - 1 x [Transport] - 1 x [Tantive IV]: 2 x [Firespray-31] - 8 x [Tie Fighters] - 6 x [Tie Interceptor] - 3 x [Tie Advanced] - 3 x [TIE-Bomber] - 3 x [Lambda Shuttle]

"Hangars": BattleFoam P.A.C.K. 432 & P.A.C.K. 216 with custom & pluck foams "Battlefields": 3 x Gale Force 9 Mats


#37 Nickotine42

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:37 PM

How do you guys feel about tokens? I always place them next to my ship (unless I'm running a focus factory). Most of my opponents do as well. I played one game against a guy and he placed them on his cards. Really throw me off as it wasn't as clear as too which of his ships had focus, evade, etc.

Edited by Nickotine42, 14 July 2014 - 07:37 PM.


#38 Flamestalker

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:52 PM

I always use the critical tokens, focus, stress, ion and evade tokens on the ship bases or near to them. this reminds me of the actions I can take or have to take.

 

I only tend to put the shield tokens near the cards for tidiness

.


Edited by Flamestalker, 15 July 2014 - 01:33 AM.

Yub, Yub, Commander. :D


#39 Nickotine42

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:54 AM

I always use the critical tokens, focus, stress, ion and evade tokens on the ship bases or near to them. this reminds me of the actions I can take or have to take.
 
I only tend to put the shield tokens near the cards for tidiness
.


Interesting. The rules state that the token must be placed near the ship. Didn't look up if it was faq'd. So are you being a jerk to ask you opponent to place tokens near the ship and not on their cards?

#40 barabelsftw

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:10 AM

 

I always use the critical tokens, focus, stress, ion and evade tokens on the ship bases or near to them. this reminds me of the actions I can take or have to take.
 
I only tend to put the shield tokens near the cards for tidiness
.


Interesting. The rules state that the token must be placed near the ship. Didn't look up if it was faq'd. So are you being a jerk to ask you opponent to place tokens near the ship and not on their cards?

 

I don't think asking someone to follow the rules should ever cause other player to see you as a jerk, as long as you explain why and are polite about it. If the other player wants to do something for tidiness, convenience ect. they should ask before they start doing it.

 

For me, I'm usually fine with the shield tokens set by the cards, but if my opponent wanted to do that with other tokens I'd politely ask him to keep them on or near the ship because that throws me off. 


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