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Askil's Only Nercromunda Project (WIP)


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#21 Askil

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:46 PM

Very different indeed. I'm reading the original (or "best" if you believe the oldies) you're reading the nitpicked community version that cleaned up all the beardy loopholes and fun grey areas (and has axes despite there almost certainly being no trees on Necromunda.)

 

Availability of Necromundan items isn't the problem I've already changed almost every item's availability, actual stats and rules for use are the issue. Justifying the existence of a new item without breaking the system is a delicate thing.


Edited by Askil, 12 June 2014 - 02:48 PM.


#22 cpteveros

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:30 PM

It's a shame, then, as I haven't been able to find the original edition hardly anywhere online. 

 

Would you like help statting up the weapons? Or adapting the items to OW? I'm on summer break, so I've got time!



#23 Askil

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 12:34 AM

Any input you or anyone else can offer would be appreciated.

 

By inclination I`m more of a fluff monkey at heart, I want ON to fit the gritty wild west in space flavour of the Necromunda novels and comics but the actual hard work of rules quickly loses it`s shine for me.

 

I tend to run out of steam on these projects. Yes, this isn`t the first time I`ve done this kind of thing. (wrote two systems from scratch and  settings and add-ons beyond counting all just for me aand my friends.) It all tends to go pear shaped when I get bogged down in the fiddly details.

 

Evidence of this would be that I did all of the first version of this in a single night, but then the last five have taken over two weeks.



#24 cpteveros

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:48 AM

I understand how much work it is, which is pretty much why I never started it on my own in the first place  :P

 

Do you need help statting up the stuff in the previous comment, or other stuff? If you'd like, you can just PM the items you need help with and I can take a crack at it.

 

However, I think the items and their stats are not as important to the game as the fluff and mechanics are, so maybe that should be your focus instead? Like how will the trading system work, what does staking a claim do for the players, or starting a settlement?



#25 Askil

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:45 PM

Taking the game to a point where I can get the lads and lasses of my RP group testing it is very much my priority.

 

I may in fact be building initial trial characters as early as tomorrow with them.

 

The trading system is my primary concern at the moment.

 

Actually to hell with the logistics system.

 

I'm thinking of a "merchant rating" system (this is a behind the scenes mechanic handled by the GM) where any NPC Trader has an assigned value (0 to +5). This value is the modifer which determines their stock quickly and without the endless rigmarole of buggering about with rarity caps or specific lists.

 

It works by the merchant value to the d10 roll shown below.

 

Ubiquitous auto/1+ 

Abundant 2+

Plentiful 3+

Common 4+

Average 5+

Scarce 6+

Rare 7+

Very Rare 8+

Extremely Rare 9+

Near Unique 10+

Unique 11+

 

Weapon quality adjust the item up or down by one level of availability per level of quality

 

e.g.

 

Shenk "Shifty" Simmons has a merchant rating of 1 (he's off the main trade routes and has few friends in the guild)

 

Jeff the player is looking for a Boltgun to replace his old shotgun.

 

A boltgun is rare (7+) but Shifty has a merchant rating of 1 reducing the required roll to a 6+

 

So the GM rolls a d10 to see if Shifty can lay his hands on one (needing a 6+.)

 

The GM rolls a 5, he decides to offer Jeff a poor quality bolter (with an availabilty of 5+.)

 

Shifty offers Jeff a rusty, beaten up looking boltgun... Jeff decides to make do with his trusty shotgun for now.


Edited by Askil, 13 June 2014 - 03:01 PM.


#26 cpteveros

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:54 PM

I like that system, it's easy and pretty quick to use. Would you use it for every requested item, or in general? I feel like it would work best as a roll for each specific item, which I think is how you did it.

 

I would be interested in testing the system too, with my group. 

 

EDIT: Just thinking about the system again, I worry it may be too easy to get good equipment too quick. Take for example, the inferno pistol (arguably the best handgun in the game). This would be rolling at automatically a 9+ with the lowest level trader, and 8+ if you don't mind a poor quality gun at that. So just with a small hindrance and the least connected merchants, you already have a 30% chance of the weapon being available. This becomes even easier if you are in a town with a better logistical supply, to the point it is almost 50/50 for a 2d10+10 damage pistol.


Edited by cpteveros, 13 June 2014 - 03:03 PM.


#27 Askil

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 04:32 PM

Well this is were the joy of a background GM mechanic comes in. You can fudge the rules and use your common sense. I personally would say the anything very rare or more is only available at GM's discretion.

 

You can delay acquisitions while the trader tries to acquire the item (meaning the group has to find the same trader again later no matter whether the trader manages to find the item or not,) or offer an alternative item that the trader can find instead.

 

Of course you can just roll a dice and say "no" whatever the result says.

 

I think it'd generally be better to just use the rating to pre-gen an inventory for minor NPC traders beforehand for general trading but specific item enquiries could also be handled wit the same system. (Maybe add a modifier for time spent searching?)

 

Anyway update live, if rather unpolished.

 

More quirks (advantages and diasadvantages, 16 now)

 

Started write up of trading system.


Edited by Askil, 13 June 2014 - 04:45 PM.


#28 cpteveros

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 06:16 PM

I agree with you there, I think the rarer stuff should ultimately be the GM's decision, and the other stuff, being transparent, is up to him or her as well. I assume that sort of caveat will be in the rules for the next revision.

 

Looking over the weapons and armor, it struck me a bit odd that the flak armor and carapace have the same availability. While I agree that flak should be rarer than in OW for obvious reasons, I think those same reasons would make carapace even more rare than they are in OW. Because as it stands, the only reason to get flak is the price difference.

 

My last worry is that of the character creation. Looking at it gives the impression of how easy it is to abuse, with the way aptitudes and the backgrounds work. Looking over it, I can make a character with +11 BS and the aptitudes to make +20 in advances as cheap as possible. With a good roll or reroll, you can easily edge a character up into almost Space Marine levels of Ballistic Skill, without modifiers. The same goes for any other characteristic.

 

I mention these facts not to nitpick relentlessly, but because my group of gaming buddies are all ruthless powergamers who love nothing more than to squeeze as much of an advantage out of the game as they can, whether or not it fits lore or common sense. 



#29 Askil

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:29 AM

Carapace availability: It's not wrong, a full suit of matching tailored flak is just as hard to get hold of as a single carapace armour component. Notice that a full light carapace suit is a step rarer (Extremely rare) and a full suit of stormie carapace is even rarer (Near unique.) Even so I see your point and the chestplate (the exclusive preserve of officers don't you know?) has been increased to extremely rare.

 

As for powergaming, I don't care if people want to make one-dimensional characters that's their problem but I've adjusted the starting stats to 2d10+10 base, this should balance the amount of plus you can pile on with quirks but mostly it's because random starting-level scum in the underhive are not as well trained, physically fit and fiercely motivated as an imperial guardsman. (Although I may consider a restructure of the stat-buy costings to make more than four levels available.)

 

was goign to post this last night but forgot to hit "post" before turning pc off.


Edited by Askil, 14 June 2014 - 10:42 AM.


#30 cpteveros

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 06:23 PM

I think that makes the armor a whole lot harder to get, which would make sense seeing as these are random sleazeballs in the middle of nowhere. 

 

As for the character creation, I think that balances out quite nicely, and provides a better sense of progression. 

 

After those changes, what else is there to do? Besides statting up new weapons/items, maybe sections on Necromunda fluff? Like what sorts of things you could run into, what the actual Underhive is like, what people do to survive, etc.

 

Also, I have acquired a Necromunda Bestiary, with entries for all types of creatures, spiders, plants, and fungi. Perhaps a bestiary section would be appropriate? 



#31 Askil

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 12:02 AM

A bestiary would indeed be appropriate.

 

basically what`s left is this.

 

Flufffing up: this is probably the part I`m looking forward to most. Importantly (and to my knowledge unprecedented to date) I have to describe the great houses of Necromunda from an outsiders perpecttive. Not the necromunda rulebooks propoganda poster "join us" but the wary oft-beaten victim`s "avoid if possible."

 

Writing a subsistance system (an idea I`ve had kicking about for a while now) that motivates players to eat and drink or suffer penalties from hunger and thirst. This will also be a spur mechanic the avoid adventures from stalling. After all the reason these scum put their lives in danger is to feed themselves not to save up and buy a pair of shoulder mounted MIU lascannons and fancy bling.

 

Integraing all non-weapon items with the trading system ammo, clothing, food, drink, drugs and other random curiosities (this will take a while and involve statting up new inventions.)

 

Writing the "playing the game" and "GMs toolkit"sections detailing adventure seeds themes and some example locations and NPCs.


Edited by Askil, 15 June 2014 - 12:13 AM.


#32 cpteveros

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 03:35 AM

I meant to ask about a food mechanic, I too thought that was a good idea to keep things moving along, as well as keeping the players poor. There is a lot of good gear that can be had, but they should have to be choosy with how they spend their money.

 

As for the Bestiary, I am already ahead of you. I've spent a good couple hours converting the Bestiary I found into something we can use. I will share it with you as soon as it's done. 



#33 Askil

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 07:42 AM

Awesome. A bestiary would be a valuable addition to the project.



#34 Lynata

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 08:33 AM

Writing a subsistance system (an idea I`ve had kicking about for a while now) that motivates players to eat and drink or suffer penalties from hunger and thirst.

 

You could perhaps take a page from Shadowrun's "Lifestyles" here. It's probably too much micromanagement to demand regular purchases and consumption of food and drinks to be played out, but it would easily be possible to come up with something like "monthly expenses" that affect stuff like Characteristics and recovery times.

 

(In SR, Lifestyles are basically a "mix and match" toolkit for people to calculate living costs by selecting from a range of options for various categories such as how the place you live in looks like, and of course what you eat. The condition of your home also affects how likely you are to get molested by loud neighbours or even criminals trying to steal your stuff - though gangs tend to provide their own security)


Edited by Lynata, 15 June 2014 - 08:37 AM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#35 Askil

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 11:04 AM

New version, not alot of real changes but a lot of lost parts now restored (I had some computer issues and lost a few days.)



#36 Santiago

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 12:28 PM

Hi,

 

Not to be a pain but I would greatly increase the cost of a Storm Bolter. The weapon is vastly more powerful than say a heavy stubber.
I would also reverse the costs of the Flamer and Handflamer.

S.



#37 cpteveros

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 06:10 PM

I think the Trusty Sidearm/Cursed Sidearm thing should be dropped from scarce to average, or the bolt pistol be increased from scarce to rare. Otherwise, it makes it quite possible for everyone to start with a common quality bolt pistol (that isn't unreliable) and not even have to worry about trying to get new weapons.



#38 Askil

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 03:55 PM

New version 17/6/14

 

Nothing major to report.

 

Fiddled with availablitites and costs.

 

Changed intro fluff layout and content slightly

 

Generall faffing about and ammo costing underway.



#39 cpteveros

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 02:04 AM

Dropping back in to say that I am still working on the Bestiary (I was on a trip, unfortunately) so that is still coming along. I have all the plants finished, I just need to add in the animals section of it to have it completed.

 

As for the rules newly posted, I am a bit unsure of the ammo prices per unit. For example, is it 2 per 10 bullets? What about the difference between charge packs and charge cells? If the bullets work the way I just mentioned, does that make it 10 per Bolt shell? Finally, it seems that plasma/melta weapons are vastly more cost effective than any other weapon, considering how rare and expensive the guns are themselves.

 

Just my two cents on that last part, I know the ammo section is still WIP but that was something that was quite confusing.

 

Lastly, the way the choosing aptitudes is worded leaves much to be desired. I know what you are trying to say, but it is quite confusing trying to understand it from the text as written. Perhaps a simplification is in order?



#40 Askil

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:00 AM

Following a few runs through the chargen system with a buddy I`ll be increasing the base stats upto +15 at least if not back to +20. (his rolled stats ranaged from 17 to 22 which are hardly inspiring.)

 

Considering making an alternative use for unspent quirk points to give them greater value and make players consider piling on disadvantages. Possibly equipment packages.   

 

Any suggestions as to what stating experiece should be would be appreciated I`m thinking maybe a thousand would fill the ability gap of not having starting spec abilities?

 

As for ammo costing They are just adaptions of the DH ones at the moment they will all be readjusted one I get the maths for cost per shot down.

 

I even drew a table to spell out aptitudes, how much easier does it get? (Still I`ll take another look at it.)






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