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Developing List (subtype): Apex Predators


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#1 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:47 PM

There was a lot of buzz around Black Squads with Opportunist not too long ago... I don't think it panned out as amazing as we had hoped.  FFG has given us another shot at that squad for similar effect, less fiddly, and cheaper! 

 

Black Squad Pilot + Predator = 17pts

 

PS 4 ties with a built in Howlrunner reroll.  No more formation flying required.  No more 6th or 7th ships that need to be flown around/protected/more points spent on, no more assault missile fears... a lot of benefits to this unchained swarm.  And it loves to see other swarms!  Double rerolls and definitely shooting first.

 

Here are a bunch of brainstorms:

 

Apex Predators Unchained

BSP + Predator x5

BSP + VI/DTF

 

Apex Predators AlphaRed

BSP + Predator x4

RGP+ PTL + Sheild + Hull

 

Apex Predators Swarm

BSP + Predatorx3

Academy Tie x4

1pt for init, or go obsidian x1

 

Apex Predators True Alpha

Soontir + PTL + Sheild

BSP + Predatorx3

BSP + VI/DTF

 

Apex Predators Turr Alpha

Turr + PTL + Shield

BSP + Predatorx3

Backstabber

 

Tiger Shark Apex Predators

Shuttle + FCS + Gunner + Tactician + EU

BSP + Predatorx2

BSP + Wingman

Backstabber

 

This just all hit me.  Tell me what I did right and what I did wrong.  I think this has a lot of potential.


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#2 markcsoul

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:52 PM

I hope you like the Tie Defender, because you'll be buying several possibly to get enough predator cards (assuming it's the only new ship that has it, and it only comes with one).


REBEL: 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 E-Wing, 3 X-Wings, 1 Y-Wing, 1 Z-95, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300, 1 GR-75

IMPERIAL: 1 Advanced, 1 Bomber, 1 Defender, 3 Fighters, 3 Interceptors, 1 Phantom, 2 Firesprays

SCUM: TBD


#3 TheWanderingMiller

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:10 PM

Seems obvious to me.

 

Rolling Predators

Howlrunner

BSP + Predator x4

BSP



#4 Aminar

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:12 PM

Seems obvious to me.
 
Rolling Predators
Howlrunner
BSP + Predator x4
BSP

Howlrunner w/ Elusiveness or Determination
BSP+Predator*4
Academy Pilot
This might work a little better.
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#5 blade_mercurial

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:13 PM

Hudson's right.

 

Having said that, I like this idea. 

 

Think its coincidence that FFG put two of the most likely popular new EPT's in the possibly least popular ship of wave 4?  One way to boost sales, perhaps.

 

I don't think I will get more than 2 TIE Defenders, so that means 2 of each Predator and outmanouevre.  Unfortunately, BSP's don't seem good candidates for outmanoeuvre.

 

2 BSP's w/ Predator

2 BSP's w/ Outmanouevre

 

Leaves 32 points.  Could add Dark Curse & Night Beast to the main force and flank with the other 2 (leaving 1 pt for initiative).



#6 blade_mercurial

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:16 PM

Seems obvious to me.

 

Rolling Predators

Howlrunner

BSP + Predator x4

BSP

Umm, the whole point of taking predator is to eliminate the need of howlrunner....you can't re-roll dice more than once, so the only time you are using those re-rolls efficiently is if you are constantly rolling blanks....in which case you might be better off just getting new dice!



#7 TheWanderingMiller

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:29 PM

 

Seems obvious to me.

 

Rolling Predators

Howlrunner

BSP + Predator x4

BSP

Umm, the whole point of taking predator is to eliminate the need of howlrunner....you can't re-roll dice more than once, so the only time you are using those re-rolls efficiently is if you are constantly rolling blanks....in which case you might be better off just getting new dice!

 

I think you misunderstand the rule.  You can't reroll the same dice more than once.  This build allows you to reroll 1-3 attack dice depending on range to Howlrunner and the PS of the target.

 

Although having Elusiveness on Howlrunner would be nice and is probably a better build, its at the demotion of a Black Squadron Pilot.  Just a personal thing here, I like having all the pilots except Howlrunner at PS 4.


Edited by TheWanderingMiller, 29 May 2014 - 02:33 PM.

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#8 Klutz

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:27 PM

Umm, the whole point of taking predator is to eliminate the need of howlrunner....you can't re-roll dice more than once, so the only time you are using those re-rolls efficiently is if you are constantly rolling blanks....in which case you might be better off just getting new dice!

I think you misunderstand the rule.  You can't reroll the same dice more than once.  This build allows you to reroll 1-3 attack dice depending on range to Howlrunner and the PS of the target.
 
Although having Elusiveness on Howlrunner would be nice and is probably a better build, its at the demotion of a Black Squadron Pilot.  Just a personal thing here, I like having all the pilots except Howlrunner at PS 4.

 
He understands the rule.

What he's saying is, the Howlrunner re-roll is useless, since Predator already gives you at least 1 re-roll.

 

The only time 2 re-rolls is useful is if you roll 2 blanks against an attacker of PS > 2, or 3 blanks against PS <= 2.

These situations probably don't happen often enough to justify Howlrunner.


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#9 Caadium

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:52 PM

 

Umm, the whole point of taking predator is to eliminate the need of howlrunner....you can't re-roll dice more than once, so the only time you are using those re-rolls efficiently is if you are constantly rolling blanks....in which case you might be better off just getting new dice!

I think you misunderstand the rule.  You can't reroll the same dice more than once.  This build allows you to reroll 1-3 attack dice depending on range to Howlrunner and the PS of the target.
 
Although having Elusiveness on Howlrunner would be nice and is probably a better build, its at the demotion of a Black Squadron Pilot.  Just a personal thing here, I like having all the pilots except Howlrunner at PS 4.

 
He understands the rule.

What he's saying is, the Howlrunner re-roll is useless, since Predator already gives you at least 1 re-roll.

 

The only time 2 re-rolls is useful is if you roll 2 blanks against an attacker of PS > 2, or 3 blanks against PS <= 2.

These situations probably don't happen often enough to justify Howlrunner.

 

 

This situation is more important if you don't have a focus for offense. It actually allows for a decent upgrade to defense while minimizing the impact to offense.

 

Barrel roll out of arcs, still basically have a full Target Lock, regardless of targets PS.

Get shot at before 4? Spend a token to avoid fire, still have the effect of a full target lock to return fire.

 

I see Howlrunner & Predator as a nice mix potentially.



#10 blade_mercurial

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:58 PM

 


 

This situation is more important if you don't have a focus for offense. It actually allows for a decent upgrade to defense while minimizing the impact to offense.

 

Barrel roll out of arcs, still basically have a full Target Lock, regardless of targets PS.

Get shot at before 4? Spend a token to avoid fire, still have the effect of a full target lock to return fire.

 

I see Howlrunner & Predator as a nice mix potentially.

 

But you can do that with just Predator.  Or just Howlrunner.  I mean, sure, if you happen to roll like crap more often than not, then sure, take both and hope for better results.  I don't want to jinx my rolling next game I play, but I don't find myself needing more than 1 or 2 re-rolls on 2/3 dice attacks very often...sure it might happen on very rare occasions, but is it worth 18 pts to cover yourself on those very few times?  I can see that depending on how hot your dice tend to be.



#11 SableGryphon

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:58 PM

Though having Howlrunner on the board might be a good psychological trick. People are so trained to attack Howlrunner first, they might not even consider the idea that she doesn't help the list at all. She's like Biggs.


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Come on down to Sable's Shuttle Emporium for all your Alabaster Void Bison needs!

 

5 TIE Advanced, 6 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Defender, 10 TIE Fighter, 6 TIE Interceptor, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 Firespray, 5 Lambda, 2 VT-49

7 A-Wing, 7 B-Wing, 3 E-Wing, 7 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 6 Z-95, 4 HWK-290, 2 YT-1300, 2 YT-2400, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90


#12 ObiWonka

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 04:55 PM

Though having Howlrunner on the board might be a good psychological trick. People are so trained to attack Howlrunner first, they might not even consider the idea that she doesn't help the list at all. She's like Biggs.

It does, however, keep you flying in formation, which as I understood the OP's intent was part of the reason to leave her out.


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Rebel: 2x A-Wing, 2x B-Wing, 1x E-Wing, 2x HWK-290, 4x X-Wing, 2x Y-Wing, 1x YT-1300, 1x Z-95 Headhunter

Imperial: 1x Firespray-31, 1x Lambda Shuttle, 1x TIE Defender, 6x TIE Fighter, 1x TIE Advanced, 2x TIE Bomber, 6x TIE Interceptor, 1x TIE Phantom

BEARFACE


#13 SableGryphon

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:36 PM

 

Though having Howlrunner on the board might be a good psychological trick. People are so trained to attack Howlrunner first, they might not even consider the idea that she doesn't help the list at all. She's like Biggs.

It does, however, keep you flying in formation, which as I understood the OP's intent was part of the reason to leave her out.

 

Agreed. I just wanted to point out there might be a place for Howlrunner in such a list, just as bait. Not necessarily for the OP but for anyone else who might be reading the thread. :)


Come on down to Sable's Shuttle Emporium for all your Alabaster Void Bison needs!

 

5 TIE Advanced, 6 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Defender, 10 TIE Fighter, 6 TIE Interceptor, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 Firespray, 5 Lambda, 2 VT-49

7 A-Wing, 7 B-Wing, 3 E-Wing, 7 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 6 Z-95, 4 HWK-290, 2 YT-1300, 2 YT-2400, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90


#14 WonderWAAAGH

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:37 PM

I briefly considered this idea, but in the end it just felt like a bad investment. You're paying 5 points more over an Academy Pilot for a slightly higher PS and some ship autonomy. At 4 BSPs + Predator you've already paid two points more for 5 Academies + Howl, a whole extra ship. Running a mini-swarm in this fashion takes up a considerable chunk of your 100 points, leaving not even enough room for a naked Bounty Hunter. Forget about running a 6 TIE swarm, it won't even fit. For less than a hundred points you can run Howl + ST, Mauler + ST, Backstabber, Dark Curse, and two Academies. That's six ships, two of which fire at PS8, two at PS7, two at PS6, with a considerable amount of their own autonomy via pilot abilities once they split up - and that's still only 95 points.

I'm an angelic creature free of sin.


#15 ObiWonka

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:42 PM

 

 

Though having Howlrunner on the board might be a good psychological trick. People are so trained to attack Howlrunner first, they might not even consider the idea that she doesn't help the list at all. She's like Biggs.

It does, however, keep you flying in formation, which as I understood the OP's intent was part of the reason to leave her out.

 

Agreed. I just wanted to point out there might be a place for Howlrunner in such a list, just as bait. Not necessarily for the OP but for anyone else who might be reading the thread. :)

 

And I liked your post because you're always thinking outside the box and I think that's awesome. :)


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Rebel: 2x A-Wing, 2x B-Wing, 1x E-Wing, 2x HWK-290, 4x X-Wing, 2x Y-Wing, 1x YT-1300, 1x Z-95 Headhunter

Imperial: 1x Firespray-31, 1x Lambda Shuttle, 1x TIE Defender, 6x TIE Fighter, 1x TIE Advanced, 2x TIE Bomber, 6x TIE Interceptor, 1x TIE Phantom

BEARFACE


#16 SableGryphon

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:46 PM

And I liked your post because you're always thinking outside the box and I think that's awesome. :)

 

I don't like the box. The box was mean to me. One day I will have my revenge.


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Come on down to Sable's Shuttle Emporium for all your Alabaster Void Bison needs!

 

5 TIE Advanced, 6 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Defender, 10 TIE Fighter, 6 TIE Interceptor, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 Firespray, 5 Lambda, 2 VT-49

7 A-Wing, 7 B-Wing, 3 E-Wing, 7 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 6 Z-95, 4 HWK-290, 2 YT-1300, 2 YT-2400, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90


#17 TheWanderingMiller

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:52 PM

 

 


 

This situation is more important if you don't have a focus for offense. It actually allows for a decent upgrade to defense while minimizing the impact to offense.

 

Barrel roll out of arcs, still basically have a full Target Lock, regardless of targets PS.

Get shot at before 4? Spend a token to avoid fire, still have the effect of a full target lock to return fire.

 

I see Howlrunner & Predator as a nice mix potentially.

 

But you can do that with just Predator.  Or just Howlrunner.  I mean, sure, if you happen to roll like crap more often than not, then sure, take both and hope for better results.  I don't want to jinx my rolling next game I play, but I don't find myself needing more than 1 or 2 re-rolls on 2/3 dice attacks very often...sure it might happen on very rare occasions, but is it worth 18 pts to cover yourself on those very few times?  I can see that depending on how hot your dice tend to be.

 

I can't control the PS of my opponent.  I can however control my range to Howlrunner.  So yes one reroll maybe wasted under certain situations.  Yet with proper formation flying you will have the equivalent reroll abilty of TL plus either Evade or BR on 4 ships.  Additionally, if you split the formation in two you maintain some of the rerolls.



#18 Caadium

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:54 PM


 

 

Apex Predators True Alpha

Soontir + PTL + Sheild

BSP + Predatorx3

BSP + VI/DTF

 

 

For this version I think I'd rather do:

BSP + Predator x4

Soontil + PTL + Targeting Computer


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#19 Revanchist

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:01 PM

Apex Predator Matador:

Rexler Brath + PtL + HLC +SD
2x BSP + Predator
Backstabber

Because I enjoy sinking 50 points on a small base ship, no other reason.

Edited by Revanchist, 29 May 2014 - 06:19 PM.

Imperial: 5 TIE/ln, 1 TIE/adv, 5 TIE/in, 1 TIE/sa, 1 Firespray-31, 1 Lambda
Rebel: 3 X-wing, 1 Y-wing, 1 A-wing, 1 B-wing, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300

"History is on the move, Captain. Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way will not watch at all."

#20 SableGryphon

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:04 PM

Apex Predator Matador:

Rexler Brath + Predator + HLC +SD
2x BSP + Predator
Backstabber

Because I enjoy sinking 50 points on a small base ship, no other reason.

See, I'd go with PTL on Rexler. That way you can get TL and Focus, then only modify the dice with TL and use the focus to make your opponent cry.


Come on down to Sable's Shuttle Emporium for all your Alabaster Void Bison needs!

 

5 TIE Advanced, 6 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Defender, 10 TIE Fighter, 6 TIE Interceptor, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 Firespray, 5 Lambda, 2 VT-49

7 A-Wing, 7 B-Wing, 3 E-Wing, 7 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 6 Z-95, 4 HWK-290, 2 YT-1300, 2 YT-2400, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90





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