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#21 chemical22

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 11:05 AM

I own and have played the old version.

 

Although I always liked expansions to Talisman, there was always something innately wrong feeling about having a Space Marine travel around the board with a chainsword.

 

I'd like a complete severance from Games Workshop and not see this.  Like others, I have nothing against other realms - but lets keep it fantasy and original to the Talisman flavour.


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#22 0beron

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 02:45 PM

While I might prefer that they stick to fantasy,

 

"original to the Talisman flavour" includes Timescape, since that expansion has existed since Talisman gained its popularity in the '80s.

 

So, from a certain point of view, Timescape is part of the original flavor (had to un-British that, lol)


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#23 DomaGB

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 04:44 PM

Someone somewhere mentioned that it would be ridiculous to see an elf fight a space marine. They haven't seen Legolas! I think he could take a space marine quite easily!

 

While they aren't elves in Avatar, they certainly have similar qualities and they took out all the sci-fi warriors.

 

So I think its an easy mix and very acceptable in a reasonable manner to put elves and space marines together.


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RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#24 Granville

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 05:27 PM

I know my friends at the table would find the addition of a Space Marine foreign and bizarre.

 

Then again they would accept it and move on, chuckling about it.

 

"Your power-armored,power-fisted, monotone-voiced genetically bread for aeons super soldier with psychic capabilities from millions of year in the future just got his ass handed to him by the local tavern drunk."



#25 Granville

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 05:51 PM

Another one for laughs:

 

Once this Space Marine touched down on Talisman Island and figured out where he actually -was- Do you really think he would bother with trying to go home?

 

"Hmmmm.......nobody in sight has a gun, flamethrower, rocket launcher, or a tank cannon pointed at me. No endless zerg of termaguants I have to risk my life cleaving through on a Sunday afternoon. The women here are scantly clad, haven't shaved their head and dont belong to an inquisition."

 

*Radio chimes in* "Unit 15 we are being overrun by the Eldar at Macaggre! Do you report? What is your status! Fall back to the LZ at 1500 for planetary extraction!!!!!"

 

*Turns off radio, looks to the Tavern Maid.*

 

"....So tell me about this Eagle King and why he's so upset."


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#26 0beron

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 06:03 PM

Someone somewhere mentioned that it would be ridiculous to see an elf fight a space marine. They haven't seen Legolas! I think he could take a space marine quite easily!

 

While they aren't elves in Avatar, they certainly have similar qualities and they took out all the sci-fi warriors.

 

So I think its an easy mix and very acceptable in a reasonable manner to put elves and space marines together.

I think that the point is that "original Talisman", which probably for most of us old timers, means 2nd edition, hence Timescape, as it appear in no other edition (ithink).

 

  the point is what works for one may not for another, is transcendent, between editions and players' ages or original exposure to Talisman, will vary a lot!

 

Some 4th Ed players loathe the Dragons, with almost the same intensity of those who hate Timescape. Yet, it is an acceptable expansion, meant to work with all other expansions in whatever combination. Now it may not work as well for some as others - perhaps to the point where we see that line - those who will use it, those who will modify it, and those who just won't use it.

 

 This is similar to our look back at Timescape. And I get it, I do. Space Marines, Cyborgs and Time Lords shouldn't be riding all over Creation and the world of Talisman ( well maybe a Time Lord once in a while;)

 

But to repurpose Talisman for the 4th Edition, it would have to be very anachronistic to not acknowledge it as a clash of cultures and that Space Marines are Lost in time and really don't fit in.  (( if a Timescape expansion happens it will probably be a sort of POD, and may be more of a 'stand-alone' type of expansion ))


Edited by 0beron, 30 May 2014 - 06:05 PM.

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#27 DomaGB

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 07:22 PM

Someone somewhere mentioned that it would be ridiculous to see an elf fight a space marine. They haven't seen Legolas! I think he could take a space marine quite easily!
 
While they aren't elves in Avatar, they certainly have similar qualities and they took out all the sci-fi warriors.
 
So I think its an easy mix and very acceptable in a reasonable manner to put elves and space marines together.

I think that the point is that "original Talisman", which probably for most of us old timers, means 2nd edition, hence Timescape, as it appear in no other edition (ithink).
 
  the point is what works for one may not for another, is transcendent, between editions and players' ages or original exposure to Talisman, will vary a lot!
 
Some 4th Ed players loathe the Dragons, with almost the same intensity of those who hate Timescape. Yet, it is an acceptable expansion, meant to work with all other expansions in whatever combination. Now it may not work as well for some as others - perhaps to the point where we see that line - those who will use it, those who will modify it, and those who just won't use it.
 
 This is similar to our look back at Timescape. And I get it, I do. Space Marines, Cyborgs and Time Lords shouldn't be riding all over Creation and the world of Talisman ( well maybe a Time Lord once in a while;)
 
But to repurpose Talisman for the 4th Edition, it would have to be very anachronistic to not acknowledge it as a clash of cultures and that Space Marines are Lost in time and really don't fit in.  (( if a Timescape expansion happens it will probably be a sort of POD, and may be more of a 'stand-alone' type of expansion ))


4th edition does have a polished feel, and Timescape has it's problems. I have confidence they can make a Timescape to capture the feel and fix those problems. True some won't like it, but the last I checked on my poll, only like 29% did not like Timescape.

I was one who disliked Dragon tremendously, but came up with a variant which I feel makes it awesome. And so I am sure those who dislike Timescape, and still wanna make it work may do something similar.
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RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#28 Granville

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 08:28 PM

 

 

Someone somewhere mentioned that it would be ridiculous to see an elf fight a space marine. They haven't seen Legolas! I think he could take a space marine quite easily!
 
While they aren't elves in Avatar, they certainly have similar qualities and they took out all the sci-fi warriors.
 
So I think its an easy mix and very acceptable in a reasonable manner to put elves and space marines together.

I think that the point is that "original Talisman", which probably for most of us old timers, means 2nd edition, hence Timescape, as it appear in no other edition (ithink).
 
  the point is what works for one may not for another, is transcendent, between editions and players' ages or original exposure to Talisman, will vary a lot!
 
Some 4th Ed players loathe the Dragons, with almost the same intensity of those who hate Timescape. Yet, it is an acceptable expansion, meant to work with all other expansions in whatever combination. Now it may not work as well for some as others - perhaps to the point where we see that line - those who will use it, those who will modify it, and those who just won't use it.
 
 This is similar to our look back at Timescape. And I get it, I do. Space Marines, Cyborgs and Time Lords shouldn't be riding all over Creation and the world of Talisman ( well maybe a Time Lord once in a while;)
 
But to repurpose Talisman for the 4th Edition, it would have to be very anachronistic to not acknowledge it as a clash of cultures and that Space Marines are Lost in time and really don't fit in.  (( if a Timescape expansion happens it will probably be a sort of POD, and may be more of a 'stand-alone' type of expansion ))

 


4th edition does have a polished feel, and Timescape has it's problems. I have confidence they can make a Timescape to capture the feel and fix those problems. True some won't like it, but the last I checked on my poll, only like 29% did not like Timescape.

I was one who disliked Dragon tremendously, but came up with a variant which I feel makes it awesome. And so I am sure those who dislike Timescape, and still wanna make it work may do something similar.

 

As a 4th Edition player new to the game, I think Timescape could be done.

 

So far FFG has stayed away from any Warhammer Fantasy or 40 K references in 4th Revised, so if Timescape comes, I don't expect those refrences back or a Space Marine.

 

The Timescape name could stay, no harm no foul here. In fact it's a great name and explain the content quite simply. It's not even in the realm of science-fiction as the portfolio of time travel is a fantasy theme too.

 

I haven't seen the Timescape board, but now i've heard some things about it that I like. I really like the aspect that it makes you Immune to the Crown for a bit, as if you are cheating time, absent from present day, etc. At first I was opposed to the idea of a separate board but it does fit with this concept. It feels very Chrono Trigger. I like that some big nasty Demon might be in this Time realm mucking things up and somehow your character ends up sucked into it's vortex/timescape/steam, etc.

 

As for anything referencing alternate dimensions, modern day, firearms, even steampunk or similar gadgetry.... I dunno... the Tinkerer and the Clockwork Cabinent is not really killing my mojo or any themes for me, but they are a very small corner of the game.

 

I think it would be cool if we visited TALISMAN'S (Again, is it an island?) future, and it's potential dark fate.

 

Without lazers, aliens, machine guns, power armor, gasoline, gunpowder, interplanetary travel, even airships or trains, you can have more than enough content  by just skipping in time 1000 years in the future, discovering some wizards college took over the entire island/land and started to flirt with demons, building the kind of artifacts that no man should of made and even creating sentinels to impose some kind of doomed imperium on the residents of the land.

 

Maybe they did wake up the One True Evil, that demon of time on the timescape board, when trying to bargain with it for power and it turned the land to ash, and these new characters are trying to find to find the crown and alter the future to prevent these things from happening.

 

And speaking of the characters, they can have kind of an exalted look to them or mechanics that easily reflect they are from the future. For example that Chainsaw Warrior I've seen a few times. All he really needs is a re-skin, I love the concept of what he is how he works on the board and the mechanics of him. More or less your basic infantry dude, but from the future with a powerful artifact in hand. So instead of it's being a chainblade, give him some black sword, more of a fantasy look and same thing. He's here for the crown like every one else.

 

Cliff Notes for those that played it: Chrono Trigger, Antiquity plots.


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#29 JediKnightAmoeba

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 11:21 PM

Give me Bolters, Lasguns, Storm Bolters, Power Axes, Power Swords, Power Fists, Space Marines, Tyranids...etc, etc.  YES...Give me timescape and give it to me NOW!  

 

I have the home-brew printed out and I like it a lot.  BUT, I would be interested to see how they would re-do it as, YES, a Science Fiction theme again.  

 

Being a 40K and Fantasy player and reading a lot of the Black Library noveks I have an understanding that the Fantasy Realm is actually a part of the 40K universe; a world trapped in a warp.  



#30 talismanamsilat

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 02:03 AM

Timescape was sort of done by making Relic. Best place for it IMO
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#31 0beron

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 08:00 AM

This is a pretty good summation of your thoughts and ideas.   I think I like the idea you present; that time travel is not strictly linked to sci-fi and therein lies the possibilities you have described.   I like the idea of a Wizard's College flirting a little too much with demons.

 

sorta reminds me of the first 2 or so novels in the Witch World series. In the beginning only women could be magic users and they ruled pretty ruthlessly; Witch's council, all that.

 

This would be an interesting idea in itself, and could be a POD, if not a new Timescape; Wizards, Witches and other magic users have decided to take over the world - to protect it (yes, snarky reference to current NSA/Empire memes).

 

Time travel, itself, as a mechanic will need some serious brain trust (or a better brain than mine!).  The only thing I got is a mechanic that takes them back; "REturn to start space, forfeit all earned craft, etc. - basically wipe the slate, with your character.

 

How would you project someone/thing into a future? Something that makes random characters lose random turns so the "the Traveller" gets ahead?



#32 Granville

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 06:46 PM

Well you keep the Timescape Board, more or less how it was. (Forgive me though as I have no experience with it.)

 

The Board represents a timestream plane; It's a transitional place both here and not here, between reality and past/present/future. You can stick around in it, but the longer you're there the more dangerous it is.

 

These box expansions tend to get 4-6 characters. All of them, except maybe one in this expansion, come from the future, but not necessarily the same point in it.

 

However in your little character blurb in the instruction pamphlet, they appear in present Talisman time. (IE the game we play all the time) Because it is the prelude, to someone finding the Crown, up to the point where someone finds it and ends that saga, which sets off the series of events to follow. (One individual with too much power, hence moving the land of Talisman into turmoil, or maybe even a peaceful state of rule, in which one or two of the characters are trying to change time for an evil goal, etc.) You have one character who is an Evil Wizard, maybe even a "Time Wizard" with a mechanic that represents manipulating time. Maybe something very powerful but at a high cost: Ditch one Spell and one Fate, take an extra turn or cancel the turn of another player.

 

Another Character is more or less a Golem or Sentinel (Yes, yes, Terminator Reference, I know..) that has come back in time to prevent anyone tampering with the current stream, so time can continue on to it's bleak existence. It's a Strength character with no innate Craft or Magic, but it comes armed with a Weapon card, that is just really nasty out the gate. However it's toy can be taken away if it manages to lose a combat, and at that point you have an Elf with that nasty weapon from the future running around.

 

The Timescape board does not need to change, nor do the mechanics or the cards; simply the ascetic details. But it is a new edition so I'm sure some of them would, to make the experience better.

 

As for effects that put time travel or manipulation into play on a mechanical sense. Time and Fate are often hand-in-hand in most of your fictions and mythology. The best representation of time is additional or loss of turns, but I'm not a huge fan of that mechanic, nor are many other people I know who like board games, so these extra actions would come at large costs, like discarding fate.

 

Maybe just the addition of a Time token, representing stolen or manipulated time.

 

I like simple mechanics so it works like this. If an in-game effect allows you to take a Time token, you must discard one Fate token first to take it.

 

The Time token is worth one extra turn of play, you can cash it in on your turn. -When you are about to cash it in, another player can cash one of their own Time tokens in, to negate the extra turn.

 

This would fundamentally give players the ability to buy in to the time game, or ignore it completely. 

 

Same with the Timescape, so all those haters can play the game with it at the table, and pretend it's not even there :P

 

Haha the more I think about it, the more I wonder if I would like a Timescape Expansion even if I made it myself.

 

I think I would rather see a nautical travel, planar travel or  just a blender expansion and keep the themes in the realm of the sane.

 

My opinion on this changes daily.


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#33 jd3

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:48 AM

Timescape doesn't hold much interest for me.  But credit to FFG, at this stage it's a bonus for enthusiasts if Timescape is released -- it would have been frustrating if it had arrived ahead of the corner expansions.


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#34 Nemomon

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:44 AM

The Timescape board does not need to change, nor do the mechanics or the cards; simply the ascetic details. But it is a new edition so I'm sure some of them would, to make the experience better.


Exactly. he deck and the board are fine even with the 4th RE. If anything, I probably would add some better purchase cards to the Space Fortress. Maybe even a special deck (like the Wargear from Relic). It is not too easy to enter the Timescape, so the rewards should be a tad better. The original Purchase cards are in fact lame and too costly.
Enter the Talisman Island!

#35 chemical22

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:33 AM

While I might prefer that they stick to fantasy,

 

"original to the Talisman flavour" includes Timescape, since that expansion has existed since Talisman gained its popularity in the '80s.

 

So, from a certain point of view, Timescape is part of the original flavor (had to un-British that, lol)

 

I remember having this feeling when Timescape was originally released - even then it felt out of place to me.  I have memories of playing Talisman prior to Timescape and doing a "WuH?!" when Timescape came along.

 

At the end of the day, Talisman has a very good formula and any expansion would probably grow on me, providing the rules are not overly complex.

 

And "flavour" was said in a Canadian accent :)


Edited by chemical22, 09 June 2014 - 08:48 AM.

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#36 Felis

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:58 AM

I've proclaimed my love of Timescape many times in many threads already ;) . For me it was inseparable part of the old Talisman experience. However I can't help but agree more and more with the people saying that fastasy world of Talisman and SF world of Warhammer 40K don't mix. I love WH 40K as well, by the way ;)

In the old days of Games Workshop all of their games were a little goofy and they didn't take them as seriously as nowadays. Today, however, everything is about continuity and setting and so some sacrifices had to be made (Squats or Fimir anyone?).

I don't see them greenlighting Talisman expansion with space marine, psyker/astropath or chainsword in it. A pity really.

I still hope for some kind of space themed or reality-shift expansion.



#37 Jake yet again

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:49 PM

Re-theme it as an ocean expansion and make it small enough to sit between the gap between the Dungeon and the City and maybe, otherwise let's keep the space marines in Relic and leave well alone.


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#38 Sacrilege83

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:17 AM

^Why not have a two part board that will fill in both gaps at either side of the main board and it can act as a portal.   ex. You reach the end of gap board space A, you then teleport to the end of gap board space B.


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#39 0beron

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:49 AM

I actually thought that myself, but figured no one would understand what I was talking about! Makes sense, sort of.


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#40 Foreshadow

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:46 AM

HECKS NO@!@@@@@@@

 

Do not make a Time Scape, instead if you do this idea: use RELIC

 

If they did and since they made Relic that is OBVIOUSLY the equivalent thing they were trying to do in Time scape by having things like a space marine in as a character. You could simply have a SMALL BOX expansion that has cards and rules for linking your Relic game you buy (which is TIMESCAPE, expanded into an entire new game) and Talisman.

 

It goes without saying AD&D has something like this with their classic module called: Expedition to Barrier Peaks. In other words, they could do something like that with Talisman. A small board that is the Barrier Peak type place. Or more simply just have a WarpGate that opens to a board which can go off to Relic or a board that has ideas from that (and since they are both GW IP's you can do this.


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