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Change to Weapons


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#1 kobrain

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 02:11 PM

I've seen a few threads about the weakness/unbalance of various weapons. these include variable setting on las weapons, the subsequent weakening of the bolter, which then getting tweaked made the plasma weaponry weaker again. (These are simply opinions I've seen on other threads)

 

From this, I would propose:

Keep variable las settings from Only War

For bolters, give felling(x), (please correct me if I've used the wrong word, but my intent is the same) which ignores toughness up to the number x

For plasma weapons, reduce unnatural toughness by one, (and if it has only normal toughness, then it ignores all toughness too)

Las weapons,and other unspecified energy weapons, half toughness, rounding up.

Sp weapons should receive +2 penetration

 

I envisioned these new changes to try and avoid changing the damage of weapons, which simply cause too much problems. I understand this makes everyone more squishy, but I'm hoping these changes will affect high toughness characters more.

The only problem I have with this is that high agility characters will benefit. However, it does make sense that if you don't get hit, you don't get hurt.

 

Feel free to point out the myriad of noob mistakes I've made, and how it does not conform to lore and the such. I admit I'm fairly undereducated in the lore, but I'm simply looking from a mechanical point of view.


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#2 Magellan

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 02:50 PM

I think this should be in the House Rules section.

 

I also think you should specify which base rules you have in mind, because I don't even know if you're thinking Only War toughness or Rogue Trader toughness.


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#3 Fgdsfg

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:42 PM

I think this should be in the House Rules section.
 
I also think you should specify which base rules you have in mind, because I don't even know if you're thinking Only War toughness or Rogue Trader toughness.

He posted it in all the 40k sections...

For some reason, we've been seeing an increasing amount of spammy stuff like this for the last couple of weeks, with people "seeding" the entire FFG fora with multiple threads on the same topic. It's very annoying and I tend to just ignore them, since there's no way to have a fruitful discussion on something spread across 4-5 different threads on the exact same topic.

I don't think Rogue Trader formally even has Felling as a Special Quality, nor is OP very clear on the rules he's writing out or what they mean. But again, fruitless discussion, really.

Edited by Fgdsfg, 23 May 2014 - 03:47 PM.

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#4 Amazing Larry

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 02:47 AM

I don't think Rogue Trader formally even has Felling as a Special Quality, nor is OP very clear on the rules he's writing out or what they mean. But again, fruitless discussion, really.

 

It's in the Dark Eldar adventure/splatbook and nowhere else as far as I know.

 

Anyway as far as the OPs poorly concieved ideas the only one I agree with really is applying variable las/hell rules to RT if you have access to the OW sourcebook, but then again that's the thing about OW I don't think anyone actually plays it I think they just like to use it's core rulebook as a patchbook/splatbook for RT and DH. I could see Astartes Mastercraft Bolters all being felling but that's as far as I'd go. Plasma weapons are exactly where they should be in that they're better than bolters in some respects and worse in others while being ungodly expensive.



#5 Magellan

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 04:48 AM

Ungodly expensive? They have the same availability as bolters.


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#6 Amazing Larry

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 02:30 PM

Which are also very expensive, but unlike bolters you never want to settle for anything less than good craftsmanship unless you're willing to have your arm burned off or start a fire at your feet when it innevitably overheats.


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#7 Erathia

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 03:14 PM

Which are also very expensive, but unlike bolters you never want to settle for anything less than good craftsmanship unless you're willing to have your arm burned off or start a fire at your feet when it innevitably overheats.

 

Nonsense, you give your scrubs poor-quality Plasma Pistols to use when you can see the gullet of your enemy (right before it's going to eat them). Then either the plasma pistol burns through the enemy's throat, or it explodes with the force of a plasma grenade without the awkwardness of actually ordering your men to kill themselves in your name.


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#8 Magellan

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 05:00 PM

Which are also very expensive, but unlike bolters you never want to settle for anything less than good craftsmanship unless you're willing to have your arm burned off or start a fire at your feet when it innevitably overheats.

Reliable only affects jamming. Overheating weapons never jam.

 

At any rate, I would hardly call anything you can take as your free acquisition "ungodly expensive".


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#9 Braddoc

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 07:22 PM

OP, I got a better idea; read the corebook, play with those rules.


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#10 Amazing Larry

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 08:17 PM


Reliable only affects jamming. Overheating weapons never jam..

 

 

Overheating is the energy weapon equivilent of jamming.


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#11 Magellan

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 01:12 AM

But it's not jamming, which is what Reliable affects - as opposed to the best quality special rule, which explicitly affects both. You are of course free to run with whatever house rules you want, but I really think it's bad form to confuse people who might take you at your word.


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#12 Erathia

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 01:54 AM

But it's not jamming, which is what Reliable affects - as opposed to the best quality special rule, which explicitly affects both. You are of course free to run with whatever house rules you want, but I really think it's bad form to confuse people who might take you at your word.

 

I had never really considered how Good quality weapons would affect Plasma, since I don't think anyone in my group has ever tried for an acquisition at Good-Quality. They've gotten Poor for sabotaging a supply dig they were trying to take over, Common for their tens of thousands of troops and Best for themselves.


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#13 Amazing Larry

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 02:12 AM

But it's not jamming, which is what Reliable affects - as opposed to the best quality special rule, which explicitly affects both.

 

Good craftsmanship confers the reliable trait in ranged weapons, it stands to reason that a reliable weapon with the chance to overheat would overheat less often than one without the reliable trait. Overheating is caused by the same roll ranges as jamming so I see no reason not to keep treating it the same way in regards to thee reliable trait.  The rules as written aren't perfect you have to think sometimes.

 

Or maybe I just can't get out of GM mode where I have to constantly settle this kind of minor crap swiftly and arbitrarily so we can keep the game going.


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#14 Errant

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 04:06 AM

Reliable only affects jamming. Overheating weapons never jam.

By that logic, Unreliable can't do anything to the Plasma Cannon in the core book. 



#15 Fgdsfg

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 04:24 AM

 

Reliable only affects jamming. Overheating weapons never jam.

By that logic, Unreliable can't do anything to the Plasma Cannon in the core book. 

 

It doesn't. Plasma Weapons already overheat as if they were jamming due to Unreliable. We discussed this briefly in a thread in the Rules Questions section of Black Crusade just a few days ago.


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#16 Magellan

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 04:41 AM

Overheating is caused by the same roll ranges as jamming so I see no reason not to keep treating it the same way in regards to thee reliable trait.  The rules as written aren't perfect you have to think sometimes.

 

Or maybe I just can't get out of GM mode where I have to constantly settle this kind of minor crap swiftly and arbitrarily so we can keep the game going.

 

[This entire post assumes Rogue Trader core rules for everything. Using Only War rules, your ruling would shift the balance even further.]

 

First of all, weapons Jam on a roll of 96-00. Overheating is 91-00.

 

Second, the rules are incredibly flawed in a hilarious lot of ways, which is exactly why I don't want to put in more house rules than strictly necessary. I don't know about you, but my clarifications and interpretations section is several pages in Word as it is, and I'd like people to be able to go by what the rulebook tells them.
 

Third, I don't agree that it's a minor issue, since going from a 10% risk of overheating to a 1% risk is liable to save your hide on a pretty regular basis.

 

Again, you are welcome to play with whatever house rules you choose. What I take issue with is when people claim their house rules are RAW, or how the game should be played. You cannot assume that every group you ever play with are going to have the same rules your current group does.

 

 

Plasma Weapons already overheat as if they were jamming due to Unreliable. We discussed this briefly in a thread in the Rules Questions section of Black Crusade just a few days ago.

 

tl;dr: What he said.


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#17 Kasatka

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 06:48 AM

Weapons work okay as they are, no need for sweeping changes like this i'm afraid. Minor tweaks sure but you're fundamentally wanting to change the entire weapon mechanics and thus game balance.


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