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#1 holmstrand

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 06:28 AM

I have 4 unique characters in play, one of them being Strong Belwas (F 34).

My opponent plays Valar Morghulis.

How many of my other 3 characters can I save with Strong Belwas? Can he trigger his response for every character (except for himself), or will his response be "used" after the first save?

 

This very same question applies if my opponent would win a claim 2 military challange against me.

 

Please tell me where you found your information so I can verify it and read for myself.

Thanks!  :)

 

 

EDIT:

I just noticed that Strong Belwas was "limited once per phase". But the question still applies to any save response. I´ll ask the question more simple.

Can you use the same respons for saving more than one character?


Edited by holmstrand, 23 May 2014 - 06:38 AM.


#2 Khudzlin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:55 AM

Each character eligible for killing (or whatever) is a separate trigger for saves. So if you have Iron Cliffs, you can use its response twice, for 2 different characters. Of course, you have to pay the cost for each use.



#3 ktom

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:02 AM

As for "where you found your information," consider that the limit on Belwas would not be necessary if a character's effect could only be used once "by default." What it really comes down to is that the rules as that if you can pay the cost and satisfy the play restrictions on an effect, you can trigger it. The absence of any "built in" limitations means there are none to add.

That said, there is one "rules imposed limitation" to know. In the FAQ, it talks about the "one Response per trigger" rule/limitation. What this says is that for each response opportunity, you may only use the Response on a card (ie, "piece of cardboard," NOT "all pieces of cardboard with the same title) one time. This is what stops Robb Stark from the Core Set from killing every character on the opponent's side of the board with his Response after winning one challenge.

Of course, that means you have to recognize each separate "response opportunity." When dealing with a mass-kill like Valar or 2+ claim MIL challenges, each character to be killed is considered a separate response opportunity for saves. That means you can use a single Iron Cliffs one time each on two separate characters, but you cannot use it twice on the same character (if the first try is canceled, for example). Of course, if someone cancels your Iron Cliffs, you could use a second, separate save effect (like a dupe or Risen from the Sea); you just can't the same Iron Cliffs a second time on the same character for the same kill.

#4 holmstrand

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 11:42 AM

Thanks for taking your time and explaining and for your answers!



#5 Miklos

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 02:59 PM

As for "where you found your information," consider that the limit on Belwas would not be necessary if a character's effect could only be used once "by default." What it really comes down to is that the rules as that if you can pay the cost and satisfy the play restrictions on an effect, you can trigger it. The absence of any "built in" limitations means there are none to add.

That said, there is one "rules imposed limitation" to know. In the FAQ, it talks about the "one Response per trigger" rule/limitation. What this says is that for each response opportunity, you may only use the Response on a card (ie, "piece of cardboard," NOT "all pieces of cardboard with the same title) one time. This is what stops Robb Stark from the Core Set from killing every character on the opponent's side of the board with his Response after winning one challenge.

Of course, that means you have to recognize each separate "response opportunity." When dealing with a mass-kill like Valar or 2+ claim MIL challenges, each character to be killed is considered a separate response opportunity for saves. That means you can use a single Iron Cliffs one time each on two separate characters, but you cannot use it twice on the same character (if the first try is canceled, for example). Of course, if someone cancels your Iron Cliffs, you could use a second, separate save effect (like a dupe or Risen from the Sea); you just can't the same Iron Cliffs a second time on the same character for the same kill.

So if Iron cliff cannot be used to save the same character twice (from the same kill effect), does it also means that in case of Ser Parmen Crane which gives Bara Lords the self-save option (for 1 influence), if the first save is cancelled (using their own save), then they cannot use again that self-save to keep that lord character alive?



#6 ktom

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 08:42 PM

Correct. If the save gained from Parmen Crane is canceled, the controller cannot kneel another influence to trigger it a second time. They could use a completely different save, though, like a dupe.




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