Jump to content



Photo

Spell durations: Are they written in stone?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 HarleyWarren

HarleyWarren

    Member

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 19 May 2014 - 02:21 PM

Seems obvious, but I am kind of interested to hear the forum feedback on this one:

 

One of the characters in our game cast spell Temporary Change on another character. The spell from the Sacred Pool expansion reads: "Cast on any character at any time. The character changes to the alignment of your choice for 2 rounds (including this turn)."

 

In our game, the target character had an follower that allowed him to change his alignment at any time. We all agreed that since his alignment has changed once this turn, he cannot change his alignment again in the same turn (core rules). However, some players made the argument that the target of this spell had to wait the full 2 rounds before he was allowed to change alignment. What do you think? Can the target of this spell change his alignment on the next turn before the spell duration has completed, or is his alignment locked down for the duration?

 



#2 Uvatha

Uvatha

    Member

  • Members
  • 463 posts

Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:17 PM

Not in the turn the spell is cast, but after that he is if the follower does not say "Only during his turn" if its anytime well he can change alignment in the next players turn thus really making spell null a void. But... if the player loses the follower before the spells effect goes I think they will revert to their first alignment. as if it will happen the player could just change to the reverted alignment in the first place.



#3 The_Warlock

The_Warlock

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,623 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 12:02 AM

The basic rule is that you can change alignment only once per turn. The Spell Temporary Change has your alignment changed, so you can't do anything else about alignment during the turn when it is cast.

 

If you have a special ability, an Object or a Follower that allows changing your alignment at will, you may use it as soon as the turn has ended. IIRC there are no such abilities which are restricted to your turn only (Disguise stands as an exception, but that's a Spell).

 

Temporary Change has a duration of 2 rounds, but this doesn't mean that in those two rounds the alignment can't be changed again, either voluntarily or accidentally. Basically it's a Spell you cast on characters to make them drop some Objects, or on yourself if you require to be of a certain alignment during an encounter. Its extended duration is part of the Spell, but usually it doesn't matter too much. It's difficult to have encounters where alignment matters for two consecutive turns.

 

 But... if the player loses the follower before the spells effect goes I think they will revert to their first alignment. as if it will happen the player could just change to the reverted alignment in the first place.

 

If you want to analyze what happens if you lose an Object/Follower that made you change your alignment, we have not yet received an answer on this one. It's a very old FAQ. I would say it's simpler to keep your current alignment.


Edited by The_Warlock, 20 May 2014 - 12:06 AM.


#4 Rigmaster

Rigmaster

    Member

  • Members
  • 46 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 12:13 AM

I could play it both ways I guess. But as it is a time restriction on the spell I would probably go with that you've to stick with the new allignment for your two rounds. On the other hand, the main reason to cast this is probably to have your opponent drop an object that you desire (or makes him/her too strong), and you'll manage that without the fixed time limit. 

 

But as this situation hasn't come up in my group we haven't discussed it. We usually go with the kinder solution if we can't or don't want to take the time to find a rule for it.



#5 talismanamsilat

talismanamsilat

    Talisman Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,290 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 12:44 AM

To me, the Spell lasts for 2 rounds and the players alignment stays the same for the duration of the spell. No Alignment change during this time either voluntary or involuntary.

#6 Croonos

Croonos

    Member

  • Members
  • 161 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 12:59 AM

+ 1
According to: "The character changes to the alignment of your choice for 2 rounds (including this turn)".
But as in life (Talisman is like life really ;) ) interpretations are arbitrary...



#7 The_Warlock

The_Warlock

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,623 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 03:11 AM

Oh yes, I've also heard that Blizzard and Prophesy stay in effect even when discarded, because they last for 2 rounds.

 

According to this logic, if you are turned into a Toad for 3 turns there's no way to revert back to normal before 3 turns have passed. The Woodland's Toad King doesn't work then, we should report it to FFG before the Woodland goes to the printer.  :D

 

Probably the designer did not mean those durations to be "written in stone", but you all seem to agree that he meant exactly that, at least for Temporary Change. Is a player required to know the designer in person and ask him what he really meant for each single card he created for Talisman?

 

I wish we could be free of all this and have a game with less ambiguities, and a comprehensive FAQ to settle what has actually been left out of the design, because the design cannot cover every single issue. I don't know if a FAQ will ever see the light of day, though, discussion seems to have no end and without any official instructions in 3 years there's nothing we can quote or rely on.


Edited by The_Warlock, 20 May 2014 - 04:34 AM.


#8 Croonos

Croonos

    Member

  • Members
  • 161 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 05:19 AM

Probably the designer did not mean those durations to be "written in stone", but you all seem to agree that he meant exactly that for Temporary Change. The only way to understand how to play Talisman is to know the designer and ask him what he really meant.

 

It also could be problematic. It the meantime we had a change of designer. At the moment we can say "designer" about 3 people, what if they have the opposite opinion ;) .

Obviously there is not written: "You can not change your alignment for the duration of 2 turns" so strictly to the rules your interpretation could be correct. But otherwise all texts and rules would have a hefty volumes.
 

Rules state:

No character, including the Druid, may change Alignment more than once in any turn. It refers only to voluntary changes, so unvoluntary it may be change many times as there is not written: Alignment, including the Druid's abbility, may change only once in any turn. You have to ignore all subsequent effects.

Thus what effect has this spell on Druid if we cast it and he immediately restore his alignment?


Edited by Croonos, 20 May 2014 - 05:23 AM.


#9 HarleyWarren

HarleyWarren

    Member

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 02:22 PM

According to this logic, if you are turned into a Toad for 3 turns there's no way to revert back to normal before 3 turns have passed. The Woodland's Toad King doesn't work then, we should report it to FFG before the Woodland goes to the printer.  :D

 

Funny, when this came up in our game, I was very much opposed to adopting a rule interpretation that locked down effect durations. I was challenged by the proponents for any example of where this would really be a problem, and after struggling for a moment, I also brought up "Turned to a Toad" and the Toad King. After consideration, our group agreed that durations should not be locked down.



#10 Uvatha

Uvatha

    Member

  • Members
  • 463 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:12 PM

To me, the Spell lasts for 2 rounds and the players alignment stays the same for the duration of the spell. No Alignment change during this time either voluntary or involuntary.

Well that would make the spell better for sure. Interesting.



#11 Uvatha

Uvatha

    Member

  • Members
  • 463 posts

Posted 22 May 2014 - 04:34 AM

Eh.... Hmmm yeah after thinking about this for a bit it does open a whole "kettle of fish" If effects are "locked" down then yeah most effects that cancel or edit a effect can be counter agued till the cows come home.

 

I don't think in the rules it refers only to voluntary changes to alignment if it did it would say:

 

"No character, including the Druid, may change THEIR Alignment more than once in any turn".



#12 Nioreh

Nioreh

    Member

  • Members
  • 130 posts

Posted 16 June 2014 - 05:40 PM

...

Temporary Change has a duration of 2 rounds, but this doesn't mean that in those two rounds the alignment can't be changed again, either voluntarily or accidentally. 

...

 

+1






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS