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So are they ever coming out?


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#21 Ana

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 02:54 AM

Yeah, lying is never a good thing, no matter the scale.


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#22 OnkelZorni

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 05:40 AM

I don't know, why I read the word "lying" here so often. The point is, these things are schduled to be released. No one ever gave a guaranty that this will happen as scheduled. There are so many things to consider that can happen on the transport from China to the US. The thing is (as far as I understand): They make a plan, the commiúnicate this plan to the customer, things don't go as it was planned.

You could argue that this happens very regularly so why don't they calculate this in and make a less tight schedule but on the other hand, we know that this happens very regular and so I don't understand why anyone is still relying on this schedule since we are used to these delays



#23 ZanzibarLand

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 05:48 AM

I don't know, why I read the word "lying" here so often. The point is, these things are schduled to be released. No one ever gave a guaranty that this will happen as scheduled. There are so many things to consider that can happen on the transport from China to the US. The thing is (as far as I understand): They make a plan, the commiúnicate this plan to the customer, things don't go as it was planned.
You could argue that this happens very regularly so why don't they calculate this in and make a less tight schedule but on the other hand, we know that this happens very regular and so I don't understand why anyone is still relying on this schedule since we are used to these delays

It's assumed that when a company makes a claim they are aiming for that claim. If we were supposed to just add an unknown number onto the end of any claim then why make it? January? Oh so you mean, feb or march? Lets all guess! New players wouldn't know this for one and those of us who do would expect the unmet promise would be a mistake. You would think that a company who didn't keep their deadline would, like you said, make it less strict or not say one at all.
We are paying customers, and to be more specific, possible paying customers, I'm sure some people have quit on the idea due to being stuffed around. It's just bad business etiquette.

Why are you so happy to be stuffed around and defend bad etiquette?

Edited by ZanzibarLand, 20 May 2014 - 05:50 AM.


#24 OnkelZorni

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 05:59 AM

 

I don't know, why I read the word "lying" here so often. The point is, these things are schduled to be released. No one ever gave a guaranty that this will happen as scheduled. There are so many things to consider that can happen on the transport from China to the US. The thing is (as far as I understand): They make a plan, the commiúnicate this plan to the customer, things don't go as it was planned.
You could argue that this happens very regularly so why don't they calculate this in and make a less tight schedule but on the other hand, we know that this happens very regular and so I don't understand why anyone is still relying on this schedule since we are used to these delays

It's assumed that when a company makes a claim they are aiming for that claim. If we were supposed to just add an unknown number onto the end of any claim then why make it? January? Oh so you mean, feb or march? Lets all guess! New players wouldn't know this for one and those of us who do would expect the unmet promise would be a mistake. You would think that a company who didn't keep their deadline would, like you said, make it less strict or not say one at all.
We are paying customers, and to be more specific, possible paying customers, I'm sure some people have quit on the idea due to being stuffed around. It's just bad business etiquette.

Why are you so happy to be stuffed around and defend bad etiquette?

 

I'm not happy, I take things as they are.

Look, there are two options: You can live with the way they handle these things or you could just stop being a customer.

Maybe it's some kind of arrogance that FFG doesn't care about these things cause there are many people like me that buy their stuff anyway. So why should they change? Because some people complaining in this forum? I don't think and if you're honest you know that I'm right about this.

 

But if a miracle happens and they change things, what could happen? Maybe they don't tell us any release dates like "Look, here is the preview for the next expansion but we don't tell you when it will be released so you can't complain when it's not on time." or "Look on this, it will be released somewhere between March and November." Is that something you wanna read?

Then we will again have threads like this one with people who dislike the way they handle the release schedules



#25 leptokurt

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 06:29 AM

I agree with Zorni. I just want to add that everyone here wants to have these spoiler news ASAP. But when they deliver tehse spoilers early and we have to wait (and wait and wait) for the expansions to come out, people are unhappy again. Perhaps they should just delay these spoilers until they're confident about the release date of their expansions?



#26 Rapier

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 06:40 AM

People will always be unhappy at waiting. People are unhappy if we don't get enough spoilers, they're unhappy if we get too many spoilers. People are unhappy if the product they wanted in Q2 actually comes at the start of Q3 - but people would be unhappy if FFG said, coming 2014, because it's so unspecific.

The complaints will stop when it comes out (Until the next time people have to wait).

 

It's not lying on any scale. Lying is a deliberate deceit (for instance, I take your pre-order with no intention of ever making the product). Expecting the product in Q2 and not getting it till the 7th calendar month is just - not meeting the expectation you had. FFG keeps us informed of the internal progress they think they're having. They only give a definite street date when they actually have a definitive one


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#27 Ana

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:31 AM

Sorry Rapier, but you are lying as well. At least according to English as we know it, the definition of lying is exactly: Not telling the truth.

I coppied the text from the Oxford dictionary. Sometimes it is better not to make up stuff either.



#28 Ana

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:36 AM

I agree with Zorni. I just want to add that everyone here wants to have these spoiler news ASAP. But when they deliver tehse spoilers early and we have to wait (and wait and wait) for the expansions to come out, people are unhappy again. Perhaps they should just delay these spoilers until they're confident about the release date of their expansions?

Or make four previews (of one spoilt card each for instance) for every pack -- just as they used to two years ago if you remember. And three would be enough I say: one announcement, one about the story for example, and one show-casing new strategy (with given player card or two). That way you can still spoil no more than three or four player cards and a few encounters and everybody is happy, or happier. Especially if you make a more realistic estimate as to when the pack will be out. I mean, these people must have had some experience by now, and to be missing the date by seasons, that is getting old.


Edited by Ana, 20 May 2014 - 07:39 AM.

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#29 Olorin93

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:47 AM

Sorry Rapier, but you are lying as well. At least according to English as we know it, the definition of lying is exactly: Not telling the truth.[/size]
I coppied the text from the Oxford dictionary. Sometimes it is better not to make up stuff either.

This is highly debatable on a semantic level, and these forums are not meant for such discussions. I agree with Rapier that lying should be considered an intentional action, and FFG's delays simply unfortunate circumstances (if they are honest in their predictions, that is). If I were making a card game like this, I would tweak and re-design the releases until they where as perfect as possible. These things take time. I think we should let them, and take their rather optimistic release dates with a grain of salt. Get another hobby while you wait.

For the record, I didn't get Voice of Isengard until today, and so, I'll happily await the new APs.

#30 Ana

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:58 AM

 

Sorry Rapier, but you are lying as well. At least according to English as we know it, the definition of lying is exactly: Not telling the truth.[/size]
I coppied the text from the Oxford dictionary. Sometimes it is better not to make up stuff either.

This is highly debatable on a semantic level, and these forums are not meant for such discussions. I agree with Rapier that lying should be considered an intentional action, and FFG's delays simply unfortunate circumstances (if they are honest in their predictions, that is). If I were making a card game like this, I would tweak and re-design the releases until they where as perfect as possible. These things take time. I think we should let them, and take their rather optimistic release dates with a grain of salt. Get another hobby while you wait.
 

I undestand you not. Rapier brought the thing about defining a word which I thought needs it not. And you are ok with it because you agree with the person otherwise, and you tell me off just for providing a valid definition of the word, finding it unfit for the forums. Someone can really be objective I see.


Edited by Ana, 20 May 2014 - 07:59 AM.


#31 Olorin93

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:14 AM

What can I be, other than objective (for that is exactly what I'm trying to be)? If your gripe is with the lexical definition of "lying", you are now faced with the definition of "truth" - and that is a discussion as old as philosophy itself and not one worth having here. My point is not to "tell you off" - I advised you to do something more productive than to write this kind of posts.

I think I'll take my own advice now and go visit a topic that actually discusses the game.
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#32 Morithain

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 09:23 AM

An adventure pack is never late.  Nor is it early. It arrives precisely when it means to!


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#33 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:46 AM

For it to bee true, it needs to arrive on a chariot directly to your doorstep, wearing a gray hat.


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That's cursed table-talk, and I'll stick you, if you don't shut it down, see?'


#34 Rapier

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:04 AM

Sorry Rapier, but you are lying as well. At least according to English as we know it, the definition of lying is exactly: Not telling the truth.

I coppied the text from the Oxford dictionary. Sometimes it is better not to make up stuff either.

Excuse me, but what definition from the Oxford Dictionary did you find? 

My oxford dictionary says this for the first meaning of lying: An intentionally false statement

The only statement I can find that matches yours is the use of lying as an adjective, on the merriam-webster dictionary website (who I don't really rate, as I find most of their word definitions are too simplistic and actually miss out a lot of meaning).

I have found no instances of lie (noun, verb) which do not refer to intent as well as being factually wrong,and I will go further than that and state categorically that such an instance will not exist. A lie is defined as intentional deception (synonyms: dishonest). This is English as we know it.

Just being wrong (without intent to deceive) is NOT lying.


I was merely saying that I didn't think FFG were lying; I think they're wrong. They provide the information to us in good faith. I really don't think they will change anything on their scheduling from any complaints. It does look like Q2 will prove to be incorrect this time as they only have two weeks to hit that deadline.

On the other hand the entirety of the upcoming section of the ffg website is predicated with the word expected: so none of it is actually a hard and fast commitment.

So in actual fact I think FFG can't actually miss them; it's like a plumber giving you an estimate for the cost of work,it's a guideline. It isn't the same as a salesman telling you the cost of an item and then charging you something different. The product will be what they say it is, and within a reasonable time-frame of their estimate.

 

Edit: Also I think that these forums are for discussion in general, I would be happy to discuss the finer points of lying and truth on them if people wished to do so. I respect the people on this forum and think the conversation could be respectful and interesting - although it isn't game related. 

We could relate it to the game by discussing it in relation to the nebulous table talk rules.

 


Edited by Rapier, 20 May 2014 - 11:07 AM.

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#35 asfaloth

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 09:27 AM

What is really annoying about this matter is the lack of information. There's no even a date for the first AP. I don't find so difficult to give at least that to the players after four months since Voice of Isengard release.



#36 Dain Ironfoot

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 03:35 PM

I was merely saying that I didn't think FFG were lying; I think they're wrong. They provide the information to us in good faith. I really don't think they will change anything on their scheduling from any complaints. It does look like Q2 will prove to be incorrect this time as they only have two weeks to hit that deadline.

 

Q1: Jan/Feb/Mar

Q2: Apr/May/June

Q3: July/Aug/Sept

Q4: Oct/Nov/Dec

 

They still have another month and a half to meet their deadline of Q2...

 

In addition, FFG updated The Dunland Trap on 4/23 to be "On the Boat" and this "generally takes 4-6 weeks" to reach the warehouse. From there, it takes 7-10 days to ship from the warehouse to retailers. So, if we take the longer end of both scales, we should expect this AP around June 14th - which is still inside Q2.


Edited by Dain Ironfoot, 21 May 2014 - 03:41 PM.

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#37 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 03:41 PM

June 14th is my birthday!


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That's cursed table-talk, and I'll stick you, if you don't shut it down, see?'


#38 Gizlivadi

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 04:06 PM

June 14th is my birthday!

 

And you'll still probably have to wait a sh**ton of time for it to arrive to your country, am I correct?


"A straight road lay westward, now it is bent."


#39 booored

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 04:33 PM

This thread is ridiculous. Are you guys like 10 years old? Things get delayed, there is a lot of stuff going on in production and dates are fluid. Get over it. Play with the cards your have or play a different game while you wait. Call them lairs and getting all bent out of shape because you can not have your cookie now, right now. I want it now.. now mommy now.. give it to me now!
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"People should be less concerned about whether they are being insulted and more concerned if it is the truth"

#40 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 04:38 PM

 

June 14th is my birthday!

 

And you'll still probably have to wait a sh**ton of time for it to arrive to your country, am I correct?

 

Yup! :lol: 


That's cursed table-talk, and I'll stick you, if you don't shut it down, see?'





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