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Nemesis rule: extra action each round


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#1 Emirikol

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:27 PM

Probably worth adopting: from (EotE GM's kit):
 
There are three overall types of dangers a nemesis can pose to the players: the physical threat, the social/psychological threat, and the threat of of a competent leader.
 
Enhanced Nemesis Combat Rule  " One problem a GM can encounter when he has his nemesis face off against the PCs is that no matter how skilled or deadly the nemesis is he'll find himself outmatched by odds of 3-5 to one. This is generally only an issue if the nemesis is alone or has one ally, however it can mean a supposedly climatic fight ends up being unexciting as the PCs swamp the nemesis with actions.
 
To avoid this, GMs can employ this optional rule. The GM can employ an additional NPC initiative slot at the end of the initiative order. Then, the nemesis may take a second turn during the same round. Any effects that are supposed to end during his subsequent turn should end during his subsequent turn in the following round, instead."

Edited by Emirikol, 17 May 2014 - 08:22 AM.

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#2 Carcosa

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:18 AM

You could always allow Nemesis level treats to spend some of their dice pool to get extra actions, or alternatively allow them to add a purple dice to all their actions past the first one, such as the way it was allowed on the old West End Games Star Wars with losing dice for multiple actions. It's slightly more "heroic" than the darker nature of WFRP, but its a pretty simple fix to a glaring problem in *a lot* of games.



#3 valvorik

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:03 AM

Interesting, please do share any other portable-bits.

 

If using the "templates" provided for uber creatures in Heroes Guide, you could simply decide that along with the fixed extra dice-line benefit, a Nemesis gains:  2 boons - make a free basic attack or an equivalent basic social action; comet - repeat action against another target.

 

I also suggest that any "big bad" should have 2+ reactive actions (e.g., the "if your parry worked immediately can do this", "improved counterspell", etc. sorts, and have some "on X, remove recharge tokens" actions - I also love giving them talents that exhaust for extra soak or recharging) - it's important if trying to make a foe flavourful that it's not just "on their action" you see their power, uniqueness etc. but also on your action!  This, in effect, gives them an extra action without it being simply two normal actions.


Edited by valvorik, 17 May 2014 - 08:04 AM.


#4 Emirikol

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:31 AM

Anybody got a summary list of the reaction cards?



#5 Carcosa

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:39 AM

@ valvorik

 

Did you mean me with porting other bits from other games?

 

If so, I could think of tons of mods you could make from heaps of games I have played over the years. If you have anything in mind however, that would help as I cannot recall off-hand just how many systems I have played :P I work better when given a specific issue to think about.



#6 Yepesnopes

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 05:30 AM

The Adversary talent from EotE is also something you may want to incorporate in Warhammer 3


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#7 Emirikol

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 03:49 PM

EotE: 132
Adversary talent
Activation: passive
NPC ONLY
Upgrade the difficulty of any combat check targeting this character once per rank of adversary.


#8 Carcosa

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 04:20 PM

Might I suggest a modification to that?

 

For every rank of the opponent more than two steps removed from the acting character or monster, add 1 difficulty dice on actions targeting that character or monster. For Example, A rank 2 character wishes to attack a rank 5 monster. Instead of the base one difficulty dice, it now becomes 2. The rank 5 monster however receives one less difficulty dice to attack the rank 2 character.

 

Thoughts? 



#9 Emirikol

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:07 PM

The purple bump seems like a lot for a rank 3 adversary (4 purples to hit). Another option: keep it simple and just do a "cancel 1 success or boon per rank" rule instead.  

 

jh



#10 Carcosa

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:14 PM

Nono, a rank 3 vs rank 1 still gives the standard 1 diff dice, a rank 4 vs rank 1 would give 2 and so on.



#11 Ralzar

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 02:44 AM

I do not think these kinds of rules really sit well with me. It feels like the enemy is artificially made more dangerous than he really is. I know that game in itself is artificial, but it seems like he breaks the game world.

 

If a nemesis does not have high enough stats to survive a full on confrontation and also lacks the smarts to realize this and avoid a full on confrontation, he does not deserve the status of nemesis. He should either have enough minions with him that he evens the odds or he simply avoids winding up in a situation where he will loose. If he winds up in a disadvantaged situation, that is when the characters have won. The combat is more like a celebration party. Actually getting to fight him is the challenge.



#12 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:48 AM

If a nemesis does not have high enough stats to survive a full on confrontation ...

 

No one has the stats to survive a full-on confrontation in this game. Just sayin'.


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#13 Ralzar

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:54 AM

Depends on the party size, career makeup and rank of the player characters though. A rank 1 party of  3 social characters would get completely crushed by something a rank 3 combat party of 5 would eat for breakfast. And if your players are the combat party, the nemesis should not be facing them without enough backup to make it a hard fight.



#14 Carcosa

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:17 PM

@ Ralzar

The idea is not to make them "artificially dangerous", it's more an attempt to plug a hole in the rules. that being of scaling. Besides a few more actions and some more gold dice, a rank 1 character is really not a lot different from a rank 3 character in terms of what they can throw out in damage.

 

You make a good point about a nemesis should be able to avoid being caught in a combat where they are outnumbered though, but I think that falls more in how the ref plays the Nemesis (if you have ever played the original module Ravenloft or House of Strahd, they are good examples of this). I don't think the climactic combat should be a cakewalk however, they should still be a challenge.  






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