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If a runner doesn't run...


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#1 RevDEAD

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:35 PM

Does that count as an "unsuccessful run"? 

 

Tennin Institute says that it'll pop if a player doesn't make a successful run. However, if a player doesn't attempt a run at all, how can it be a success or a failure?



#2 Khouri

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:50 PM

The card checks for a successful run, so as long as the runner does not make one (either from not running, by jacking out or bouncing off EtE ice) you will get to use Tennin's ability.

 

Had it specified an unsuccessful run, the runner would be able to deny use of the ability by not running (which would defeat the point of the identity imho).



#3 RevDEAD

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:04 PM

As opposed to an identity being wholly overpowered and procing even if there isn't a run to check for success/failure?



#4 Khouri

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:40 PM

All it is checking for is, did the runner make a successful run?

 

Whether this condition is not met by failing to run or failing a run is irrelevant.

 

As for overpowered, not really. Trap jinteki suffered a lot from runners who only ran when it suited them, and with a fist full of cards. Tennin changes that by giving the runner a choice, all they have to do is make a successful run and there is no free advancement. If you lock them out of their agendas all the advancements in the world won't win them the game (but then it is jinteki).


Edited by Khouri, 15 May 2014 - 06:47 PM.

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#5 CommissarFeesh

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:36 AM

It's hardly overpowered. And as for the initial question, simply compare the wording of Tennin to that of Successful Demonstration.

#6 Grimwalker

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:12 AM

It's strong, let's not kid ourselves. A lot of times recursion is better than draw, so all you have to do is splash a little purple to reclaim your Tricks of Light and a pair of Tennin tokens is like a loaded Astroscript. Terrifying.



#7 CommissarFeesh

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:06 AM

It's strong, let's not kid ourselves. A lot of times recursion is better than draw, so all you have to do is splash a little purple to reclaim your Tricks of Light and a pair of Tennin tokens is like a loaded Astroscript. Terrifying.

 

It's not AS scary. A loaded Astro needs a 3/2 in hand and 2 credits to score again.

 

Jinteki needs a 3/2 in hand, 2 credits AND a ToL in hand. That's not an inconsequential difference.



#8 Grimwalker

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 02:44 PM

That's why I specified the recursion aspect of it. If you have both extra copies of TOL still in your deck *and* the ability to bounce any number of them back to hand at will, it's as much of a loaded gun as Astroscript. In the tournament I was in, he'd scored once and I'd seen Archived Memories and Reclamation Order, so the ability was there. The practical result is the same, once they draw into an agenda they can score it, and once they're at match point you have to hustle and pray that the gods of random access are in a good mood.






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