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Narrative Dice


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#1 Charlie2710

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:58 PM

So this happens a lot and I'm always confused about what I should do. But what happens when all the success and failure cancel. Is it down to advantage or threat. And what if those are blank?

#2 Kalrunoor

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:07 PM

If it isnt successful its a fail.
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#3 Kshatriya

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:11 PM

No net successes = failure, regardless of Advantage/Threat. Even if it's a failure, generated Advantage/Threat can still be spent.


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#4 ccarlson101

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:19 PM

No net successes = failure, regardless of Advantage/Threat. Even if it's a failure, generated Advantage/Threat can still be spent.

 

...with the caveat that weapon qualities cannot be triggered unless you successfully hit (even if you have advantage to spend). And there are other corner cases where this holds true in other aspects of play as well.

 

But otherwise, yes, advantage/threat is largely independent of success/failure and can be spent to alter the outcome of the action in other ways besides succeeding or failing.


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#5 Kshatriya

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:22 PM

...with the caveat that weapon qualities cannot be triggered unless you successfully hit (even if you have advantage to spend). And there are other corner cases where this holds true in other aspects of play as well.

Yes, true. I wasn't thinking specifically about combat. Good clarification.



#6 Agatheron

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:24 PM

I had one guy shoot with his suped-up blaster pistol, failing to score a success on the roll, but generated 4 advantage. It was a clear miss, but in this case, four advantage is pretty substantial. So the shot missed, hitting the side of the cliff, but created enough noise to wake a sleeping Lylek... who in the next turn proceeded to eat the original target. :)

 

The Advantage/Threat axis (and Triumph and Despair) really add the cool elements to this system. It's a matter of getting used to thinking beyond the binary pass/fail.


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#7 DanteRotterdam

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:25 PM

This can be so anticlimatic... Rolling for that very important check and literally verything cancels each other out...
Terrible...
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#8 Kshatriya

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:26 PM

This can be so anticlimatic... Rolling for that very important check and literally verything cancels each other out...
Terrible...

Should've flipped a Destiny?


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#9 DanteRotterdam

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:29 PM

Yeah, but that feels like such an after thought... So anticlimatic...

#10 I. J. Thompson

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:49 PM

The Advantage/Threat axis (and Triumph and Despair) really add the cool elements to this system. It's a matter of getting used to thinking beyond the binary pass/fail.

 

Remember back in the day, when people were coming around here saying EotE was going to fail because you had to buy new dice?  :lol:


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#11 Agatheron

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 04:11 PM

 

The Advantage/Threat axis (and Triumph and Despair) really add the cool elements to this system. It's a matter of getting used to thinking beyond the binary pass/fail.

 

Remember back in the day, when people were coming around here saying EotE was going to fail because you had to buy new dice?  :lol:

 

 

Actually I wasn't around then. ;) Evidently thinking outside the d20 is tougher than we thought :blink:


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#12 Kshatriya

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 04:12 PM

Yeah, but that feels like such an after thought... So anticlimatic...

Maybe so, but epic or casual failure is also cinematic sometimes. See: Han trying to hot-wire the bunker doors open in RotJ, having a second door close over the first :D


Edited by Kshatriya, 15 May 2014 - 04:25 PM.

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#13 awayputurwpn

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:09 PM

...with the caveat that weapon qualities cannot be triggered unless you successfully hit (even if you have advantage to spend). And there are other corner cases where this holds true in other aspects of play as well.

Definitely, you should consider whether the check failed or not when spending Advantage/Threat :)

But for weapon qualities, another further caveat: they can only be triggered by a successful hit unless otherwise noted in the quality's description. 


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#14 DanteRotterdam

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:34 PM

Yeah, but that feels like such an after thought... So anticlimatic...

Maybe so, but epic or casual failure is also cinematic sometimes. See: Han trying to hot-wire the bunker doors open in RotJ, having a second door close over the first :D

That felt like a failure with despair and not a "nothing" result...

#15 Jamwes

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 08:19 AM

RAW: no successes means you fail. In our game, if you get a total of zero successes or failure (especially if you get no result because the threat and advantages cancel each other out) then the GM makes the failure not so bad. An example would be listening at a door. Net result is a success, then you can hear. Net result is a failure, then you cannot hear. Net result is neither success or failure, then you cannot quite hear but if you listen longer you'll get another roll.






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