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Reliable vs. Overheat


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#1 Fgdsfg

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:42 PM

Alright, so, apparently I have many questions today.

I could make them in a single thread, but I figured that separate threads for separate issues makes it easier for others to find it later.

So, Reliable vs. Overheating.

 

In the games I have played, we have always played weapons with Overheat as overheating on anything that would otherwise been a Jam. That's it. So if a weapon can't Jam, it can't Overheat. If it's got Reliable, it's harder to Overheat. And so on.

Upon reading what the Overheat Special Quality actually does, I came to the conclusion that that might be completely wrong. Specifically, it says that Overheat makes the weapon overheat on any roll of 91 or higher. In this, it offers no alternative. It's a flat-out stated part of the quality.

 

It then later goes on to explain that, apparently in addition to the above, if the weapon jams, it instead gets overheated.

 

This leads me to believe that a weapon with Overheat in no way benefits for effects that reduces jamming, other than of course the said jamming (if applicable) not becoming an overheat.

 

Meaning that any weapon with Overheat overheats at a roll of 91 or higher, even if it has Reliable, and the only safeguard against Overheating is if the weapon is of Best Craftsmanship.

Is this the correct, by-the-books interpretation?


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#2 Tenebrae

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:58 PM

Is this the correct, by-the-books interpretation?

As far as I can tell: Yes.
Is it Rules as Intended? No clue.
But a strict reading of the rule gives exactly that result as far as I can tell.
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#3 Calgor Grim

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:37 PM

The description of the rule says that weapons overheat either due to poor design or firing unstable superheated ammunition.

 

Reliability suggests it only ensures that the weapon will function and the mechanics inside the gun will always (or more than likely) continue to operate as normal without being clogged or breaking. It will not stop the gun from heating up as it fires or from a misfire. It's like a lighter, you can make it more reliable to ensure it always triggers when you click it but the fire it generates will always be hot whether or not it clicks on straight away or if it takes you a few goes. Now any sort of coolant based upgrade such as what might be in the upgrade to best quality which would have it incorporated would affect it.

 

IMO then, Overheat shouldn't be modified by reliable.


Edited by Calgor Grim, 14 May 2014 - 05:39 PM.

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#4 SynfulJester

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:47 AM

It is intended that Jamming and Overheat are two separate things.  A reliable plasma gun can still overheat.  If you are looking for a 'reliable' version of dealing with overheat, there is a talent in Only War called Plasma Weapon Expertise.  It changes the Overheat from 91-100 to 96-100.  

 

If you read the section on Overheat in the rulebook it specicifally says that weapons with the Overheat quality NEVER jam.  This means the benefit of Best Quality preventing a ranged weapon from Jamming, does NOT affect whether or not a plasma gun will Overheat.  This means Reliable plasma gun, because reliable only affects jamming, will not change the overheat chance.  



#5 WilliamAsher

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 04:27 AM

Not sure if it is true in Black Crusade (at work without books), but Best Quality in other books states that the weapon never Overheats too.  Best Plasma weapons are often a favorite of my players for that reason.



#6 BrotharTearer

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 05:39 AM

It is correct. That's why you want your Plasma weapons to be BC or use purified plasma special ammo.



#7 WilliamAsher

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:05 PM

Microburst Flack also works.  It adds 10m, +2 Pen, -2 Damage and cannot fire on Maximal, but loses the overheat quality



#8 AlphariusOmegon7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 08:57 AM

I personally have always had Overheat counting as Jamming for the purposes of anything that effects jamming.  It seems stupid otherwise.  But yes, according to RAW, any weapon should always be capable of Overheating on 91-00 no matter its quality.  



#9 Calgor Grim

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 09:12 AM

BC Core Rulebook, P147 (top left corner)

Ranged Weapon Quality

 

Good quality makes it more reliable which as we discussed isn't applicable but go to the next entry:

 

Best: As fine a piece of craftsmanship as can be found, this weapon never suffers from jamming or overheating, treating any such results as a miss.

 

 

So a best quality plasma weapon will NOT overheat at all. The weapons quality of best effectively negates the rule which says it gets hot on 91+, it no longer applies.


Edited by Calgor Grim, 01 June 2014 - 09:15 AM.

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#10 Fgdsfg

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 09:37 AM

Honestly, I'm feeling like just making Overheat make it so that on a Jam, the weapon instead suffers the Overheat effects, and then give all Common-Craftsmanship Plasma Weapons Unreliable (removing Unreliable on Good-Craftsmanship and giving it Reliable on Best-Craftsmanship).


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Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#11 Kiton

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 09:36 AM

One problem that remains, which I've pointed out before, is that Best Craftsmanship plasma weapons still suffer from overheating in their accuracy. 91+ becomes "just missing" instead, which means they may be up to 5 or 10 times as inaccurate as any other weapon once you're getting your numbers up. The way overheat is written causes strange problems in pretty much all of the variations and systems we find it in.



#12 Fgdsfg

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:07 PM

One problem that remains, which I've pointed out before, is that Best Craftsmanship plasma weapons still suffer from overheating in their accuracy. 91+ becomes "just missing" instead, which means they may be up to 5 or 10 times as inaccurate as any other weapon once you're getting your numbers up. The way overheat is written causes strange problems in pretty much all of the variations and systems we find it in.

I'm pretty OK with that, actually, and something I had overseen entirely. It means that Plasma weapons are still affected by the fact that they are volatile, overheating weapons, just that it doesn't actually Overheat if it's Best-Craftsmanship, it merely overloads and sends a bolt flying.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.





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