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Secret Room discard


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#1 herrada

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:33 PM

Hello,

 

when is a claimed secret room card discarded?

After the quest or do the heroes keep them between quests?

 

E.g. the card "room of keys" says the heroes discard it when there is no fatigue token left on the card.

 



#2 Zaltyre

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:39 PM

I think that card is kept in the heroes' play area between quests, until it is used up. Several other secret room cards specify "discard this card at the end of the quest," and this one does not.



#3 amoshias

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 12:41 PM

I never assume that presence of/lack of reminder text means anything in this game - FFG is so inconsistent at templating and bad at proofreading that those are essentially meaningless indicators. In this case - keeping something with tokens on it across sessions/quests - is so unusual that I'd really want to see text explicitly stating you DO keep it after the quest. I can't think of anything else in the game where tokens persist on a card across quests - it's hard to track and easy to screw up.

 

I'm not saying that I disagree that you're reading the plain text correctly, though, Zaltyre.



#4 Zaltyre

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 05:35 PM

I never assume that presence of/lack of reminder text means anything in this game - FFG is so inconsistent at templating and bad at proofreading that those are essentially meaningless indicators. In this case - keeping something with tokens on it across sessions/quests - is so unusual that I'd really want to see text explicitly stating you DO keep it after the quest. I can't think of anything else in the game where tokens persist on a card across quests - it's hard to track and easy to screw up.

 

I'm not saying that I disagree that you're reading the plain text correctly, though, Zaltyre.

There are certainly plenty of instances of seemingly unnecessary clarification in one spot, and conspicuous lack of clarification in another- no dispute there. However, it says on multiple other secret room cards when to discard them, and the condition on this one is "when it's out of tokens," not "at the end of this quest." Additionally, there are some rumor rewards from this expansion that are clearly meant to persist for multiple quests, so it's not like the mechanic is non-existent, and I'd be willing to believe it can go between quests- it won't last long anyway, having a max of 4 tokens to start. Also, how many quests have 4 normal doors?



#5 Steve-O

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 09:28 PM

FWIW, I would agree that Room of Keys lasts across quests until the tokens are all gone.



#6 Electris

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:15 PM

It lasts across multiple campaigns if the tokens aren't removed,

#7 sigmazero13

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:19 PM

It lasts across multiple campaigns if the tokens aren't removed,

Well, multiple campaigns may be taking it a bit too far, since each campaign is supposed to start all fresh and clean :)



#8 Bagpus

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:58 AM

I think this is one of those occasions that needs an official clarification because it can be argued both ways. As an example Shop cards persist between quests..... Search cards don't. So a simple "whilst tokens remain; treat this card as a shop or search card " would help define it's persistence.
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#9 Electris

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:01 PM

It lasts across multiple campaigns if the tokens aren't removed,

Well, multiple campaigns may be taking it a bit too far, since each campaign is supposed to start all fresh and clean :)

It follows you to work, as long as a token remains.

#10 BentoSan

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:50 PM

Its one of those instances where you cannot imply a rule that was not written. If there is no rule saying it needs to be discarded after a encounter or a quest then you would not discard it. An official clarification would not hurt, but in the meantime i would let it carry across quests until stated otherwise.



#11 amoshias

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:16 PM


There are certainly plenty of instances of seemingly unnecessary clarification in one spot, and conspicuous lack of clarification in another- no dispute there. However, it says on multiple other secret room cards when to discard them, and the condition on this one is "when it's out of tokens," not "at the end of this quest." Additionally, there are some rumor rewards from this expansion that are clearly meant to persist for multiple quests, so it's not like the mechanic is non-existent, and I'd be willing to believe it can go between quests- it won't last long anyway, having a max of 4 tokens to start. Also, how many quests have 4 normal doors?

 

I'm looking through stuff and thinking about it and I'm just not coming up with anything - What else has tokens that persist from quest to quest, Zaltyre?



#12 Bagpus

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:20 AM

There are certainly plenty of instances of seemingly unnecessary clarification in one spot, and conspicuous lack of clarification in another- no dispute there. However, it says on multiple other secret room cards when to discard them, and the condition on this one is "when it's out of tokens," not "at the end of this quest." Additionally, there are some rumor rewards from this expansion that are clearly meant to persist for multiple quests, so it's not like the mechanic is non-existent, and I'd be willing to believe it can go between quests- it won't last long anyway, having a max of 4 tokens to start. Also, how many quests have 4 normal doors?

I'm looking through stuff and thinking about it and I'm just not coming up with anything - What else has tokens that persist from quest to quest, Zaltyre?
Typically anything that persists between quests states explicitly that it remains in play. As an example rumour quest cards and advanced quest cards. My guess would be that the Secret room card remains in play for the duration of a quest but gets shuffled back into the Secret room Deck for the start of a new quest. That's a guess in the absence of something telling me different.
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#13 Zaltyre

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:05 PM

I don't know of another example in terms of tokens persisting between quests, however, my reasoning is based on:

 

All 4 of the rumor reward cards are designed to be used during an arbitrary quest (though they mostly are "one time use.")

 

Of the 6 secret room cards from "Lair of the Wyrm," all 6 explicitly state when to discard it, including "The Armory," which states "Discard this card at the end of this quest, or when there are a number of fatigue tokens on it equal to your might." 

 

Of the 6 secret room cards from "The Trollfens," all 6 of them also state when to discard the card, 4 of those being immediately after an effect, and explicitly limited to a single quest. The other two state that a hero "may keep this card," ("Place of Peace" and "Room of Keys") and specify that they're discarded after they're used up. 

 

"Tainted Spring," for example says, "Any hero the secret room may keep this card. You may discard this card at any time to roll 2 red power dice. Each hero recovers heart equal to the heart rolled.Discard this card at the end of the quest." 

 

"Place of Peace" has the same formula, but lacks the condition of discarding it at the end of a quest.

 

It's not like FFG wrote these cards in an ambiguous manner- they definitely wrote on all 12 of these cards the specific discard conditions, it's just that two have different discard conditions. For 2 of them, instead of saying to discard at the end of a quest, they wrote that a hero can keep the card, and explained when it should be discarded, which is not at the end of a quest.


Edited by Zaltyre, 18 May 2014 - 01:12 PM.





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