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using range rulers to place asteroids in a specific spot


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#1 macar

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:02 AM

Aside from the 2x2 corner or edges would it b3 safe to say you can use a range rulers place an asteroid in a specific spot.

Exmple. I want an asteroid on the outside edge of sontir for cover after a 5 forward/boost left/right from starting position.

Would it be fair if i use two rulers to set its exact location? Just curios on your thoughts.

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#2 Keffisch

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:02 AM

Of course it is, how else would you measure the range versus the range restrictions?



#3 Buhallin

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:06 AM

I'm obviously a minimalist when it comes to what you're allowed to measure.  To my mind, you can measure what you need to measure - specifically, is the asteroid within range 2 of the edge, or range 1 of another rock.  Nothing else should be allowed.

 

That said, people are taking some very permissive views on the use of templates before the game starts.  Unless/until FFG clarifies it, it seems that up until the first planning phase pretty much anything goes.  I don't see that using the range ruler to position your asteroids is any worse than using the maneuver templates to preplan your first moves.


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#4 macar

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:11 AM

I'm obviously a minimalist when it comes to what you're allowed to measure.  To my mind, you can measure what you need to measure - specifically, is the asteroid within range 2 of the edge, or range 1 of another rock.  Nothing else should be allowed.
 
That said, people are taking some very permissive views on the use of templates before the game starts.  Unless/until FFG clarifies it, it seems that up until the first planning phase pretty much anything goes.  I don't see that using the range ruler to position your asteroids is any worse than using the maneuver templates to preplan your first moves.


I am the same way which is why i posted to get an opinion.

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#5 rowdyoctopus

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:28 AM

Asteroids are placed before ships, correct?

 

Also, keep in mind that 5 range is MUCH longer than the 5 forward movement template.  The 5 forward template is about as long as range 2.5.



#6 Buhallin

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:31 AM

You can easily convert from range ruler to maneuver templates.  But you really don't even have to do that.  With the way people seem to be taking it, it seems that you could actually use the ship and maneuver templates during asteroid placement.



#7 Galactic Funk

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:40 AM

While the Tournament Rules do not allow setup templates they specifically note that you are permitted to use range rulers and/or other X-Wing components during setup.

Based upon that ruling I would say it is 100% permissible to use range rulers while placing asteroids.
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#8 Slugrage

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:45 AM

I would be of the mind that the *only* use of the range ruler would be to check the distance to meet the Distance 2 from the edge and the Distance 1 from any other asteriod. To do anything else is really bordering on cheating, or at least an *extremely* open interpretation of the rules to me.


Core: 3 sets

Rebel: 1 X, 3 Y, 3 A, 2 B, 2 H, 2 YT-1300, 2 E, 4 Z, 1 CR-90, 1 GR-75, 2 Reb Aces

Imperial: 2 T, 3 T/Ad, 4 T/Int, 2 T/Bmb, 2 T/Df, 2T/Ph, 2 Shuttle, 2 Firespray, 2 Imp Aces

Order: 1 YT-2400, 1 VT-49


#9 Deltmi

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:46 AM

Paul used the range ruler to measure the exact placement of his first asteroid in the World Championship, and there wasn't any issue. I assume the TO was watching the board the entire time, and didn't take any exception. 

 

To add one more thing, Paul has stated that his opening strategy was based on the asteroid placement.


Edited by Deltmi, 14 May 2014 - 11:48 AM.

Rebel Alliance: 5 [X-Wing], 2 [Y-Wing], 2 [A-Wing], 3 [B-Wing], 2 [HWK-290], 1 [YT-1300], 1 [GR75 Transport], 1 [CR90 Corvette], 4 [Z-95], 2 [E-Wing]

 

Empire: 8 [Tie Fighter], 3 [Tie Advanced], 3 [Tie Interceptor], 3 [Tie Bomber], 1 [Firespray-31], 1 [Lambda Shuttle], 1 [Imperial Aces], 2 [Tie Phantom], 2 [Tie Defender]


#10 StevenO

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:58 AM

You pretty much have to use the Range Ruler when setting up asteroids.  After all they can't be within R2 from the edge and need to have at least R1 between rocks.  Not our fault that the ruler reaches out to R3.



#11 Galactic Funk

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:58 AM

I would be of the mind that the *only* use of the range ruler would be to check the distance to meet the Distance 2 from the edge and the Distance 1 from any other asteriod. To do anything else is really bordering on cheating, or at least an *extremely* open interpretation of the rules to me.

Cheating? Really?

Let's say an asteroid is already placed and I want to place another one just far enough away that a third asteroid can't be placed between the first two. I'm doing this so I keep things spread out strategically. Is that cheating because I'm not just checking to see what range 1 is?

Edit: Or what if I use my range ruler to measure range 3 to the edge so that I know an asteroid can't be placed between it and the edge opening up a wider space to use. I didn't use it to measure range 2 to the edge or range 1 to another asteroid. Does that go against the spirit of good sportsmanship?

Edited by Galactic Funk, 14 May 2014 - 12:02 PM.

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#12 StevenO

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:05 PM

Oh great, another thread that is going to go down the "good sportsmanship" rabbit hole.  :(


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#13 Slugrage

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:07 PM

Let's say an asteroid is already placed and I want to place another one just far enough away that a third asteroid can't be placed between the first two. I'm doing this so I keep things spread out strategically. Is that cheating because I'm not just checking to see what range 1 is?

Edit: Or what if I use my range ruler to measure range 3 to the edge so that I know an asteroid can't be placed between it and the edge opening up a wider space to use. I didn't use it to measure range 2 to the edge or range 1 to another asteroid. Does that go against the spirit of good sportsmanship?

 

 

Yes.

 

Yes.


Core: 3 sets

Rebel: 1 X, 3 Y, 3 A, 2 B, 2 H, 2 YT-1300, 2 E, 4 Z, 1 CR-90, 1 GR-75, 2 Reb Aces

Imperial: 2 T, 3 T/Ad, 4 T/Int, 2 T/Bmb, 2 T/Df, 2T/Ph, 2 Shuttle, 2 Firespray, 2 Imp Aces

Order: 1 YT-2400, 1 VT-49


#14 Deltmi

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:08 PM

I would be of the mind that the *only* use of the range ruler would be to check the distance to meet the Distance 2 from the edge and the Distance 1 from any other asteriod. To do anything else is really bordering on cheating, or at least an *extremely* open interpretation of the rules to me.

So I guess you don't plan out your overall strategy, and just randomly place your asteroids? 


Rebel Alliance: 5 [X-Wing], 2 [Y-Wing], 2 [A-Wing], 3 [B-Wing], 2 [HWK-290], 1 [YT-1300], 1 [GR75 Transport], 1 [CR90 Corvette], 4 [Z-95], 2 [E-Wing]

 

Empire: 8 [Tie Fighter], 3 [Tie Advanced], 3 [Tie Interceptor], 3 [Tie Bomber], 1 [Firespray-31], 1 [Lambda Shuttle], 1 [Imperial Aces], 2 [Tie Phantom], 2 [Tie Defender]


#15 Slugrage

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:10 PM

 

I would be of the mind that the *only* use of the range ruler would be to check the distance to meet the Distance 2 from the edge and the Distance 1 from any other asteriod. To do anything else is really bordering on cheating, or at least an *extremely* open interpretation of the rules to me.

So I guess you don't plan out your overall strategy, and just randomly place your asteroids? 

 

Seeing as I can't place half of them, I'll put down the first one or two where I'd like them to roughly be. But then again, my squad builds aren't dependant on asteroid placement to win.


Core: 3 sets

Rebel: 1 X, 3 Y, 3 A, 2 B, 2 H, 2 YT-1300, 2 E, 4 Z, 1 CR-90, 1 GR-75, 2 Reb Aces

Imperial: 2 T, 3 T/Ad, 4 T/Int, 2 T/Bmb, 2 T/Df, 2T/Ph, 2 Shuttle, 2 Firespray, 2 Imp Aces

Order: 1 YT-2400, 1 VT-49


#16 rowdyoctopus

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:12 PM

 

I would be of the mind that the *only* use of the range ruler would be to check the distance to meet the Distance 2 from the edge and the Distance 1 from any other asteriod. To do anything else is really bordering on cheating, or at least an *extremely* open interpretation of the rules to me.

So I guess you don't plan out your overall strategy, and just randomly place your asteroids? 

 

No.  That isn't what he said at all.  He is simply saying you cannot use the measuring device to know 100% without a doubt that you are placing that asteroid exactly where it is most strategically beneficial to you.

 

Do you not try to approximate in your mind where your maneuvers are going to put your various ships?  You cannot put maneuvers on the board during the planning phase, but that doesn't mean you just randomly select maneuvers, does it?



#17 Galactic Funk

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:16 PM

Let's say an asteroid is already placed and I want to place another one just far enough away that a third asteroid can't be placed between the first two. I'm doing this so I keep things spread out strategically. Is that cheating because I'm not just checking to see what range 1 is?
Edit: Or what if I use my range ruler to measure range 3 to the edge so that I know an asteroid can't be placed between it and the edge opening up a wider space to use. I didn't use it to measure range 2 to the edge or range 1 to another asteroid. Does that go against the spirit of good sportsmanship?

 
Yes.
 
Yes.

Alright then. It appears my work on this planet is finished so I must now return to my home on the planet Zarkon.
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#18 Slugrage

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:17 PM

How did this suddenly evolve into a curious supposition that I play entirely randomly?

 

To let this continue to be getting close to personal here... yes, I have an excellent sense of spatial awareness. I can generally know, all up in my brain case, where any given maneuver is going to have any given ship end up.


Core: 3 sets

Rebel: 1 X, 3 Y, 3 A, 2 B, 2 H, 2 YT-1300, 2 E, 4 Z, 1 CR-90, 1 GR-75, 2 Reb Aces

Imperial: 2 T, 3 T/Ad, 4 T/Int, 2 T/Bmb, 2 T/Df, 2T/Ph, 2 Shuttle, 2 Firespray, 2 Imp Aces

Order: 1 YT-2400, 1 VT-49


#19 Galactic Funk

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:24 PM

How did this suddenly evolve into a curious supposition that I play entirely randomly?
 
To let this continue to be getting close to personal here... yes, I have an excellent sense of spatial awareness. I can generally know, all up in my brain case, where any given maneuver is going to have any given ship end up.


To be clear nothing I'm discussing should be construed as an attack on you or your abilities.

I am however a bit dumbfounded that you find these rather innocuous examples to be cases of cheating.
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#20 Buhallin

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:25 PM

Measuring is one of the things FFG has been maddeningly inconsistent on.  By all the evidence we have, they've decided that prior to the first Planning Phase, you can do pretty much anything you want with templates and measuring regardless of whether that would be legal once the game starts or not.

 

I don't especially like it, but I think it's a stretch to call it cheating given the preponderance of evidence.






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